Is Pastoring a One Man Show?

Elders are pastors?
-rory moore

According to scripture, is the typical church to be a One Man Show? -or was there another form of oversight to "pastor"?

• Can one man really Pastor a congregation?
• Did Paul start churches and move on putting them into the hands of one pastor, priest, or bishop?
• Did any apostle establish a church board or turn a church over to a family to run it?
• Were any of the church epistles sent to one man, i.e., to  Pastor XYZ?

After many churched years of functioning inside the system as an "elder", doing all the things ministers do, after leaving the institutional side of the church system, (clergy-laity-membership-hierarchy), we were called out of that and have spent years in careful study of scripture...

I was never a Pastor, or The Pastor, but was once an ordained minister and a "pillar" in our assembly.

My wife and  served as a shepherds, servants, and elders with the responsibility to lead, attend to, and feed God's people much as fathers who watch and care for a family.
 -We were never a sole authority Pastor, (aka .."lords"), but as one among others with various ministries, gifts, and callings in God's kingdom. I never saw myself as a pastor especially after being an "Assistant Pastor", and a longtime ministering elder.  

What we realize now is All of the so-called "five-fold" gifts of ministries are elders, but not all elders are "five-fold" ministers. We were part of a typical church structure in which position and rank were of the clergy and laity. Clergy ministry had its' privileges and perks, laity were expected to follow, support, and fund the vision. 

How did all this become evident?

For the past few of years, I have been reading, studying, and re-reading the book of Acts, in order to learn and understand what form of church government was observed, and what was preached, taught, and ministered, and the manner in which the disciples carried out the commands of Jesus.

We saw how the Lord gave examples from Acts 20:28 in which Paul told the elders, the "overseers" (i.e. the bishops) of the church at Ephesus, to "take heed to yourselves, and all the flock, over which the Holy Ghost has made you (plural) overseers, to feed (other versions read "tend") the flock of God which he has purchased with His own blood".

Let's notice the Holy Spirit made them overseers, not via ordination certificate, voting them in as Pastor, Bible College or Seminary, a denominational franchise, or a home missions board.  (see How To Answer A Call From God)

Hold that thought please, Paul wiped out the organizational flow-chart, church hierarchy, and staff diagram with the Pastor at the top of the pyramid..
In a perfect world, the Holy Spirit calls people, scripture qualifies them, and Spirit-led elders acknowledge their gift and service as overseers WITHOUT sending them to Bible School.

How in the name of the "Nicolaitane" clergy can that be?

It came as a shock to realize the Holy Spirit does not put ONE man in charge over the rest of the ministries like the Nicolaitanes do.  (If you  do not know what a Nicolaitane is, please refer to the articles on this site.  God knew when He put that term in the scripture and said He "hates" it.)

What about those apostles, prophets, teachers, pastors, and evangelists?
They were all there at the church at Ephesus and not one was titled, salaried, collected  tithes, or in charge of a building program. No robed "Bishop", pope, Superintendent, Board, or frocked cardinal was seen in the entire church. -Quite a contrast to the local church scene, isn't it?

So we have found ourselves as functioning elders and helpers of the faith for many, feeding others from the Word itself, tending and caring for them, encouraging them, and even doing the work of an evangelist as we sow the seed of God's Word in many places.

By choice we are untitled servants of the Lord, not building own kingdom nor looking with expectation of financial gain from those we minister to.
God will see to it that our needs are met as He always has done as He told us in His Word.

1 Peter 5:1-3 Young's Literal Translation (YLT)

1  Elders who [are] among you, I exhort, who [am] a fellow-elder, and a witness of the sufferings of the Christ, and of the glory about to be revealed a partaker,² feed the flock of God that [is] among you, overseeing not by force, but willingly, neither for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind,
³  neither as exercising lordship over (God's) heritages, but examples for the flock,

1Peter 5:1 (in the ASV)
The elders among you I exhort, who am a fellow-elder (Peter), and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, who am also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:
 2 Tend the flock of God which is among you, exercising the oversight, not of constraint (by controlling), but willingly, according to the will of God; nor yet for filthy money, but of a ready mind;
 3 neither as lording it over the charge allotted to you, but making yourselves examples to the flock.

We are to feed, not force, tend to and not be served by; give to and not take from; serve willingly and not for the expectation of a hireling.

Maybe you should pray for God to assemble you with others according to His Will, and if you are walking in the "bond of love", seeking His righteousness in overcoming the world and sin, our prayer and desire is to help equip you to be a Holy Spirit sent minister and equipping others to do likewise.

We are not about owning a bigger church barn, taking ownership of people, or being a "lord" over God's heritage. (1Peter 5:4)

Jesus is Chief Shepherd according to 1Peter 5:4, and Psalm 23. "The Lord is my Shepherd (PASTOR) I shall not want".

Pray  His love and tenderness will flow through your elders as we die to self and become vessels through which He manifests His Shepherdship.

Scripture Summary Notes:   Elders are pastors:
Acts 14:23 (NLT) Paul and Barnabas also appointed elders in every church. 

²³ And when they had appointed for them elders in every church, and had prayed with fasting, they commended them to the Lord (ASV)

Acts 15:2 ... Paul and Barnabas, and certain other of them, should go up to Jerusalem to the apostles and elders about this question.
Acts 15:4 ... they were received of the church, and of the apostles and elders, and they declared all things that God had done with them.
Acts 15:6 And the apostles and elders came together for to consider of this matter.
Acts 15:22 Then pleased it the apostles and elders with the whole church, to send chosen men of their own company to Antioch with Paul and Barnabas; namely, Judas surnamed Barsabas and Silas, chief men among the brethren:
Acts 15:23 ... The apostles and elders and brethren send greeting to the brethren of the Gentiles in Antioch and Syria and Cilicia.
Acts 16:4 ...they delivered them the decrees for to keep, that were ordained of the apostles and elders which were at Jerusalem.
Acts 20:17 And from Miletus he sent to Ephesus, and called the elders of the church.

"feed the flock of God over which the Holy Ghost has made you overseers"  

1 Tim 5:17 Let the elders that go before you be counted worthy of double honor, especially they who labor in the word and doctrine.
Titus 1:5 For this cause left I thee in Crete, that you should set in order the things lacking, and ordain elders in every city, as I <also>  had appointed thee:

Leadership in the Early Church
1 Peter 5:1 The elders which are among you I exhort, who am also an elder, and a witness
"elder":  presbeteros Strongs 4245
elder, of age,
 the elder of two people
 advanced in life, an elder, a senior
 forefathers
 a term of rank or office
 among the Jews
 members of the great council or Sanhedrin (because in early times the rulers of the people, judges, etc., were selected from elderly men)
 of those who in separate cities managed public affairs and administered justice
 among the Christians, those who presided over the assemblies (or churches) The NT uses the term bishop, elders, and presbyters interchangeably

How to Keep A Proper Sabbath Observance

Keeping the Sabbath

      As modern Christians we considered our desire to please God and observance of the 7^th day of the week, the Sabbath, has come to our attention on more than one occasion.
The day came and a  thoughtful reading of Sabbath scriptures was due. 
For a time we even attended a Friday night service hosted by a Messianic Jewish brother, and considered purchasing a talith prayer shawl like Jesus wore.

But our traditional church meeting time was Sunday morning and we really had no clear Biblical teaching while in our old church, we only had a minimal understanding about the Sabbath observance. (in contrast to weekly exhortations to tithe, attend church, and the latest growth program).

In the Evangelical Christian world we were part of, we did not “observe the Sabbath because we were under “grace.”  We knew of 7^th Day Adventists and Baptists, Messianic Jewish Christians, and others who strongly emphasized “keeping the Sabbath” like they were. 

But we were not clear…  we saw where Jesus sort of observed the Sabbath and Paul was observed going to Synagogues to witness to his Jewish brethren that Jesus was Messiah. 

The scriptures say that a proper and Biblical Seventh day, as literally defined by God in the Old Testament, begins at sunset. 

In Genesis 1:13 for example, God said:

 “There was evening and there was morning, a third day”, and the other 6 days of creation are spoken of likewise. 
So a proper Biblical day began at sunset and a new day began the following day at sunset (on our Saturday evening)

There is no specific mention of the “Sabbath” until Exodus 16:23, which was about 2,500 years after creation.
 God did not give Abraham Sabbath observance when making Covenant with him. (However Abe was commanded circumcision)

We fast forward to Exodus and the deliverance of Israel from the bondage of Egypt.  After 430 years of serving the rulers of Egypt as slaves, the Lord told Moses and Aaron it was high time to get out of Goshen.  (Exodus 12).

The Lord God called the month they were called out of Egypt “the FIRST month (aka Abib)” (Ex.12:2), and they were given instructions for the next 14 days (which included two sabbaths).

The Lord commanded the mandatory requirement of sacrificing a lamb without blemish, and applying the lamb’s blood to the doorposts of their homes so the death angel would “Passover” and spare their lives.

This was to be observed and diligently kept as “an ORDINANCE FOR EVER”.

The Lord ordained also a mandatory feast called “Unleavened Bread” of “seven days” as an observance “an ordinance FOREVER":

And in verse 16 “And in the first day there shall be an holy *convocation, and in the seventh day there shall be a holy *convocation to you; no manner of work shall be done in them, save that which every man must eat, that only may be done of you.”
 (*convocation: means a public meeting, rehearsal, assembly)

Here God gave them the weekend off, and no work. Hooray!

 He also gave command to eat unleavened bread for seven days, in fact, the Lord ABSOLUTELY required that “there be no leaven found in your houses” or “eaten that which was leavened”  under penalty of death!   -Exo.12:3). 

God was very particular how and what they ate or it might be their last meal. 

The children of Israel were doing well so far, the Lord giving them specific instructions regarding the observances of the Passover and the seven days of Unleavened Bread, including a FEAST on the 7^th day, and admonishing them that when they went back into the Promised Land of the Canaanites they were to keep these observances “FOREVER”. 

Seems they were happy with this arrangement and God was with them:
“And the LORD went before them by day in a pillar of a cloud, to lead them the way; and by night in a pillar of fire, to give them light”.

Many “oohs” and “ahhs” were heard at this time in the camp of Israel, and the word “WOW!” was invented to express awe.

Shortly after this, evil King Pharaoh decided to do some “ethnic cleansing” but God intervened by permanently baptizing the Egyptian army in the Red Sea (not to be confused with the Dead Sea). 
 “PRAISE GOD!!” –cried the Israelites and they celebrated joyously as the final bubbles surfaced over the watery grave of Pharaoh and Co.  

For three months the folks of Israel were given a desert tour by God, being fed, watered, and given specially anointed footwear guaranteed by God not to wear out

Unfortunately, those sorry excuses for victorious believers murmured and complained about how God was treating them.
So in Exodus chapter 16, God gave them some loving correction, and got a little more direct with them about the sabbath too:
Ex 16:23 And he said to them, This is that which the LORD has said, To morrow is the Rest of the holy sabbath to the LORD: bake or boil that which you will bake to day.

And the Sabbath gift was introduced.
Exodus 16:29 “See, for that the LORD has given you the SABBATH”.

Life was good, no taxes, a nice day of rest, God was feeding them, leading them, and they were getting real comfy with their walking tour through the countryside.

By chapter 19 of Exodus, it was time for God to give Moses more complete rules for His people, so He called Moses to come meet Him up on Mt. Sinai, and bring the people so they could fellowship and find out about God’s plan for their lives. 
 The Lord mentioned them being so special and how He wanted to bless them.  

But then in chapter 20, God stopped being “seeker-sensitive” while giving them His “Best Life Now” agenda for prosperity.
When “all the people saw the thunderings, and lightnings, and the noise of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking: and when the people saw it, they removed, and stood afar off. “  

Then it happened: “WHOAA!! –we’re outa here!” they said when they saw and heard God was really awesome, serious, and they skee-daddled away from the mount where Moses was receiving the LAW.. 

“Ten’s enough for me!!!” - they hollered over their  shoulders as they “removed”.  -“Next thing ya know, He’s gonna bring up tithing!”

God had only got as far as giving the Ten Commandments when this happened. After the dust settled, He and Moses got back to work up there on Mt. Sinai, and the rest of the folks got back to their sports, games, and small talk about their neighbors and the weather. 

So The Lord and Moses worked out the rest of the details regarding God’s contract with Israel including things like “an eye for an eye, a tooth for a tooth” (Ex. 21:24), smiting those that broke it, 
and… the SABBATH.

Sabbath times…

God was very picky when it came to His orders about the Sabbath.

It began on sunset Friday, (that was before Friday was invented, back then they only had numbers).  And the new interpretation (from God Himself) of the 3 month old Sabbath rules went like this:

Ex 20:8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy.

Ex 20:10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates:

Everyone, even slaves and animals had chores, no tasks for your employees, and no dishes or laundry.  No honey-do’s, no campfires, no stove cooking. 
And please do not make sabbath breakers of the “waitress”, or the chef in the restaurant that you used to visit after Sabbath before you read this.

Ex 31:14 Ye shall keep the sabbath therefore; for it is holy to you: every one that defiles it shall surely be put to death: for whosoever doeth any work therein, that soul shall be cut off from among his people.

Ex 31:15 Six days may work be done; but in the seventh is the sabbath of rest, holy to the LORD: whosoever doeth any work in the sabbath day, he shall surely be put to death. 
 Now there’s some strong incentive to be Sabbath-careful! 
Keep that in mind when you read the next one!:

Ex 35:3 Ye shall *kindle no fire throughout your living quarters on the sabbath day.
  (*means consume, to burn, or heat.) 
You know, like the heater or house furnace, your car’s engine that burns gas, or the blow dryer for your hair. 

Now here’s a super Sabbath for you, it lasted a whole year!
Lev 25:4 But in the seventh year shall be a sabbath of rest to the land, a sabbath for the LORD: thou shalt neither sow thy field, nor prune thy vineyard. 

No plowing, planting, pruning so with that death penalty, we recommend not pruning the lawn either, just in case.  Even the ground itself got a vacation.

Suddenly, keeping the true Sabbath becomes challenging, and don’t forget that death penalty in Exodus 31:15.  

If you are going to keep the Sabbath now, you just can’t pick and choose verses, you know.

Num 28:9  on the sabbath day two lambs of the first year without spot, and two tenth deals of flour for a meat offering, mingled with oil, and the drink offering thereof: (was also commanded for the Passover Sabbath)

According to the law of the Passover Sabbath, you must remember to kill two spotless lambs, give two tithes of wheat flour with oil, and a drink offering to the priest.

Lev 16:31 It shall be a sabbath of rest unto you, and ye shall *afflict your souls, by a statute for ever.  *humble, submit, weaken, abase. 
Sports fans and football play-off watchers…beware!

Lev 23:24 Speak unto the children of Israel, saying, In the seventh month, in the first day of the month, shall ye have a sabbath, a memorial of blowing of trumpets, an holy convocation. 

 Now here’s a special little Sabbath you probably never heard about…  And a bit more about that:

Lev 23:32 It shall be unto you a sabbath of rest, and ye shall afflict your souls: in the ninth day of the month at even, from even to even, shall ye celebrate your sabbath.

Lev 23:39 Also in the fifteenth day of the seventh month, when ye have gathered in the fruit of the land, ye shall keep a feast unto the LORD seven days: on the first day shall be a sabbath, and on the eighth day shall be a sabbath. 

Now hold on, God just said there was a special SABBATH on 7-1, 7-9, and 7-15 of the Jewish calendar??!  

Hmmm, how about that, God snuck another Sabbath or three in on the folks just to make sure they were paying attention!  

Lord have mercy, this Sabbath keeping just got complicated and you have us on a different calendar to boot!

And just to make sure they got the Sabbath correct, this happened in Numbers 15:
32 And while the children of Israel were in the wilderness, they found a man that gathered sticks upon the sabbath day.

34 And they put him in ward, because it was not declared what should be done to him.  They put him in JAIL for sticks on the Sabbath?

35 And the LORD said unto Moses, The man shall be surely put to death: all the congregation shall stone him with stones without the camp.

36 And all the congregation brought him without the camp, and stoned him with stones, and he died; as the LORD commanded Moses.

Whoaa, you mean the church had to take that guy out and let him have it with the rocks?  Yes, that’s what God told them to do because he violated the Sabbath law.

About this time you may be thinking, “this Sabbath thing is pretty scary and they sure didn’t explain all those OTHER Sabbath scriptures to me very well.” 
 If you thought that you are CORRECT! 
And if you thought observing the Sabbath only meant driving over to a meeting Friday night or Saturday morning you were WRONG!

We could stop now with just those verses from the OT Law, and you would have plenty to think about.
 Remember, when Christ and the early church apostles came along, they knew those verses. 
All of them, death penalty and taking a year off from farming included.

So when someone tries to put you under the Sabbath, chances are 100% he does not keep the Sabbath law the way it was given either.

 Let’s see, to summarize a few points about really keeping the Sabbath:

-It was a mandatory observance upon penalty of death.

-In the 7^th year Sabbath, no planting or pruning. 

-No fire.  Period. Not the one in your cars engine, the house heating system, nor the stovetop.

-No work. Not for you, your kids, your employees, or your servants like the waitress and cook at the restaurant.

-No travel.  Whoops! –there goes the trip to church in the car whose engine burns gasoline for fuel.

-Observance of those tricky 7-1, 7-9, and 7-15 Sabbaths of the Jewish calendar you forgot to buy, and then there is that Passover Sabbath with the two lamb-sacrifice to watch out for.

Please don’t stone me, go back and re-read those Sabbath verses for yourself.
 About now you may be thinking:     "we got us us sabbath problems here"

Why even the apostle Paul said to the church in Galatians: 3:¹⁰ For as many as are of the works of the law are under the curse: for it is written, Cursed is every one that continues not in all  which are written in the book of the law to do them.

But not to worry, dear reader, the NEW Covenant is called a “BETTER covenant” than the Old Covenant which Paul said “was done away in Christ”, and “Christ is the END of the Law to all that believeth”, and “Having abolished in his flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in himself of twain one new man, so making peace –Eph. 2:15; you can have peace with God and be free of the obligation of trying to keep the law of the Sabbath as given in the Old Covenant. 

See article "Tell Me, You Who Desire to be Under The Law"  

for a more thorough Scriptural explanation of our relationship to the OT law.  

The Nicolaitane (CLERGY-Laity) Error Jesus Hates (was not Santa Claus)

Overcoming The End-Time Nicolaitanes

-by Rory Moore

"neither as lords over God's heritage" -1Peter 3
The time has arrived in saving people from the CLERGY over the LAITY Church SYSTEM.

Disclaimer: 
At times it may sound as if I am anti-pastor. This is not so. We love the pastors whom God has graciously put in our lives. The truth is aimed at the harlot system and her institutions,
and NOT at any individual that is trapped by the error of the Nicolaitanes.

• "But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitanes".
  VERY few Christians "hate" this, and if one cannot recognize the Nicolaitane error then one cannot "hate it"  (i.e., despise it).
• We do not "hate" the people snared in the Nicolaitane error. Jesus calls us to love when disagree. 

Revelation 2: (To the church at Ephesus)
6   But this you have, that you hate the deeds of the Nicolaitanes, which I also hate;
15 So you also them that hold the doctrine of the Nicolaitanes,     which I hate.
16 Repent; or else I will come to you quickly, and will fight against them (the Nicolaitanes) with the sword of my mouth.

You cannot repent of this unless you know what it is and why Jesus hates it!

Here is truth:
Christ detests the formal, organized  (usually 501c3 incorporated) church government found in almost every church and denomination.  The Clergy over laity churches because it puts man in the place of God.

"Nicolaitane" is from two Greek words "Nike" and "Laos"

The Greek word "nike" means "to conquer"…to dominate, intimidate, CONTROL, rule over, even to manipulate.

It means exercising carnal control. It means ruling by position, dominion, subjugation, and taking authority by these means. 

The word "laos" means "the people", that is, the laity.
Hence,  "nike-laity", i.e. "Nico-laitane" error.

Thus we have by definition the deeds and teaching of those who conquer, dominate, manipulate, and "lead" the laity, or the people.

Why does Jesus "HATE" their deeds and doctrines?

Simply put, it is because it puts men in the place of God, seating them in the temple of God.
-whether they be called the church board, Elder, Senior Pastor, priest, Pope, Bishop, or some other ecclesiastical title.

 And it virtually guarantees the majority of God's people never mature into faith and their own ministry as Jesus.

Denominational, factious, competitive Christianity has given the church a hierarchical, professionalized, titled, system of church clergy organizing offering "strange fire". 

Now Nadab and Abihu, the sons of Aaron, took their respective firepans, and after putting fire in them, placed incense on it and offered strange fire before the Lord, which He had not commanded them.

·     

o   WHY is no Senior Pastor, Youth Leader, Choir Director, pope, cardinal, Archbishop, priest, monsignor, or denominational structure found in scripture?

o   WHY no scripture giving any Pastor-Priest sole ruler-ship, headship, or sole authority over an assembly of God's people?

o   WHY were no formal titles or labels attached to any New Testament disciples including the obvious ones like the apostles?

o   WHY are no church boards, assistant pastors, co-pastors, associate pastors, or senior church officials in scripture?

The simple truth is because Jesus taught His disciples not to do those things.

Overcoming the Nicolaitane error and deeds

In Revelation 2, the people of God who have eyes and ears to overcome are told:
15-17: So have you also some that hold the teaching of the Nicolaitans in like manner.
 Repent therefore;
or else I come to you quickly, and I will make war against them with the sword of my mouth.
 He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.
 To him that overcomes will I give of *the hidden manna....

Serious words I never heard in church, never discussed or considered. Mysterious.
Yet strong admonitions are given in scripture in regard to what Jesus said was the relationship among the brethren and how actual church should function (like family and not am institution).

What Peter said in 1Peter 5:

1 The elders among you I exhort, who am a fellow-elder, and a witness of the sufferings of Christ, who am also a partaker of the glory that shall be revealed:

2 Tend the flock of God which is among you, exercising the oversight, not of constraint, but willingly, according to the will of God; nor yet for filthy lucre, but of a ready mind;

3 neither as lording it over the charge allotted to you, but making yourselves examples to the flock.

In this passage, note elderS (plural) are among us, Peter includes himself as an elder, and no mention of "pastors".

Why not?
Connect the dots friends.
-God gave a five headship ministries to oversee and serve God's people. Apostles, prophets, evangelists, teachers, pastors. Co-equal brethren, elders, men. (my post regarding qualifications to oversee)

-neither ...  means  "  not even, no, not once".

-as lording: means: "to lord against, that is, control, subjugate: - exercise dominion over (lordship), be lord over, overcome."

Yet this is exactly what the Nicolaitane error does and Peter said not even once was the flock to be carnally subjugated, controlled, or have someone exercise dominion over.

As the Christian sees the truth of scripture, he will need to simply repent and realign his thinking in terms of what the New Testament ministry truly is, not from what we have seen all around us.

1 Corinthians 11:3 But I would have you know, that the head of every man is Christ;

The ministry is given to serve, edify, and steward the faith. Those who minister are to comfort, correct, and contend for the faith.
The faith they are to contend for is THE faith as it is written (not the fragmented, conflicted, sectarian mish-mash of faith found in the church world).

Friends, Jesus gave, taught, and lived THE faith to His disciples, who in turn gave the same gospel and the same faith to the churches they established. 

Many pastors compare their ministry to Moses who led the people of God to the "Promised Land" with the idea that there must be a leader-centered administration of a church body.
But that is not a model found in the New Testament because we have Christ and the Holy Spirit given to direct an assembly if they are Spirit-filled and Spirit led. Most churches simply fall back into the traditions of men in their structure.

And the 501c3 Incorporation so common to church groups legally places Caesar above Christ.

You see, when the Nicolaitanes imposed their error and deeds upon the church, the pastor-priest became the preeminent personage.
T'was never meant to be and there is not one positive New Testament example of that.

Who gave the pastor-priest preeminence over the rest of the five-fold ministry and the false hierarchial system of "accountability"?

It was the work of the Nicolaitane clergy. 
As many of us finally realize, this is the most common form of church government around us. .

How do you "overcome" the clergy-laity Nicolaitanes?

Love them but Renounce and resign from all official memberships.
Ask God to take their error and deeds out of your heart.
Then pray to assemble with others.

If these steps are not done, or the deeds and error of the Nicolaitanes not spoken out in the church, then excuses, justifications, and having faith with "respect of persons" (see James 2:1) will keep you within the body of the harlot church system.  -and the cycle of church to church will continue.

James 2:1 NCV

My dear brothers and sisters, as believers in our glorious Lord Jesus Christ,
never think some people are more important than others.

*the hidden manna....: is the Truth revealed by the Holy Spirit. The "hidden manna" revelation of what the Nicolaitane deeds and error in this post was revealed to me by the Holy Spirit.

My prayer is others will see this and take it to heart. People will rise or fall with the Clergy church system. They will  walk in Light or darkness, be deceived or be delivered. 


Study References:
James 2:1
Matthew 23
Matthew 20: 21-27
1 Peter 5:1-5
Revelation 2:1-20
Acts 20:17-35

Is Revelation 4:1 The "rapture"?

"Revelation 4:1 is the rapture?"

Many have assumed Revelation 4:1 is the rapture, or at least a figure for the rapture of the church.
We will show from scripture what is true, and give many reasons.

Here is the passage in Revelation 4:

After these things I saw, and behold, a door opened in heaven, and the first voice that I heard, a voice as of a trumpet speaking with me, one saying, Come up hither, and I will show thee the things which must come to pass hereafter.  Straightway I was in the Spirit: and behold, there was a throne set in heaven, and one sitting upon the throne;

1.   Is  “Come up hither”  the same as “caught up” as in 1st Thessalonians 4:17?
(17  then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up in the clouds

   Here are the two words from the Greek:
 “caught up”  is “harpazo” Def. to seize, carry off by force, claim for one's self eagerly, to snatch out or away  Strongs #726
 “come up” is “anabaino” Definition: ascend , to go up , to rise, mount, be borne up, spring up. #305

The “catching away” is the church remnant being caught up in the twinkling of an eye.
The “come up” hither” is an ascension going up, like smoke.
It may not fit the definition of the “rapture”.

2.    After John went up,  he saw elders, but does it say he saw the churches that he just
  was given a message for in chapter 3 right before going up?

Rev. 3:21   He that overcomes, I will give to him to sit down with me in my throne, as I also overcame, and sat down with my Father in his throne.
22   He that has an ear, let him hear what the Spirit says to the churches.

Next, immediately after being told to write what the Spirit said to the churches, he hears a voice.
3.   Was it a "voice" he heard or a trump that is written that precedes the rapture?

Notice this and ask yourself,  is the "FIRST" voice the "last trump" ???
 Rev. 4: 2" and the first voice that I heard, a voice as of a trumpet"

1Cor 15:52  In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump:
                 for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised
                 incorruptible, and we shall be changed

John does not say the voice speaking "come up hither" is the archangel.
He said   the "first" voice is "as" a trump, but is not identified as "the last trump AND a voice of the archangel, as it says regarding the real rapture in 1Thess. 4:16:

For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, AND with the voice of the archangel

4.  Is "Come up hither”  mis-identified a "rapture?

    In the Greek, "come up" is "anabaino", and the rapture is "harpazo".      

     Here  is “anabaino”: (www.biblestudytools.com/lexicons/greek/kjv/anabaino.html)
     Definition:  to ascend, to go up, to rise, mount, be borne up, spring up.

5. “anabaino” is never used where there is a “harpazo”.

 Acts  10:9  On the morrow, as they went on their journey , and drew nigh unto the city,
                   Peter went up upon the housetop to pray (anabaino)
Galatians 2: 1 Then fourteen years after I went up again to Jerusalem with Barnabas,
                   2 And I went up by revelation, and communicated unto them that gospel which I preach
                       (both are “anabaino” ).
  John went up (anabaino)  in the Spirit, but was not raised (harpazo)  up along with the last trump/ the dead raised first/ the clouds, or the numerous signs that accompany the rapture. 

 6.   The Signs.

        Compare “come up hither” with the real "rapture" and the signs that go with the rapture:

    
        In 1Thessalonians 4: 16
          For  the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, AND with
          the voice of the archangel, AND with the trump of God:

 AND
    the dead in Christ shall rise first;
       (17 then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them be caught up (harpazo)
          in the clouds to meet the Lord in the air: and so shall we ever be with the Lord.

7. The English expressions:
    The confusion is introduced by the translators when they translate two different words into similar
     English expressions.
     Our example here of “caught up”, which in the “rapture” verse in 1Thessalonian 4 is “harpazo”,
     is accompanied by many signs.  Harpazo is a sudden seizure, a forceful action. 

  The "pre-trib" folks who want to make "come up hither" into the rapture, but Anabaino is more leisurely like smoke going up, climbing a mountain, arising, or ascending..
   The actions are very different.
8.  Questions:

     In Revelation 4:1, where does the Lord descend?
     Where is the voice of the archangel AND the trump of God?
     Where are the dead that “rise FIRST”?
     Where is the SHOUT?
     Where is “the cloud of witnesses”?
Without any other “rapture” signs that all of the other “rapture” verses mention, any attempt to turn 4:1 into a pre-trib rapture is blatant “twisting”, that is, the “wrestling”  of another meaning into the passage.

9.    At the “rapture” ,  what happens to the physical body?
     In Revelation 4:2 Straightway I was in the Spirit.
     The resurrection is not spoken of until Revelation 20:4, in the first resurrection…”

     Compare with 1Corinthians 15:
51   Behold, I tell you a mystery: We all shall not sleep, but we shall all be changed,
52   in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound,
       and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.

There is no mention of a resurrection or a “changed” body in Rev. 4:1-2.

10.  Now compare the same word used in the “rapture” texts
       with the same word used in Revelation 4 as “come up hither”. 

Harpazo: (to seize, carry off by force to seize on, claim for one's self eagerly to snatch out or away)
Acts 8:39   And when they came up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip;
                  and the eunuch saw him no more, for he went on his way rejoicing.
 2nd Corinthians 12:2  I know a man in Christ, fourteen years ago (whether in the body,
                                   I know not; or whether out of the body, I know not; God knoweth),
                                   such a one caught up even to the third heaven.
 2 Cor 12:4      how that he was caught up into Paradise, and heard unspeakable words...
 1Thes 4:17      then we that are alive, that are left, shall together with them
                        be caught up in the clouds, to meet the Lord in the air:...
 Revelation 12:5  And she was delivered of a son, a man child, who is to rule all the nations
                          with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and unto his throne.

Anabaino:  (ascend to go up , to rise, mount, be borne up, spring up)

Mat. 14:23    After He had sent the crowds away, He went up on the mountain by Himself to pray
Mat. 20: 17  As Jesus was about to go up to Jerusalem, He took the twelve disciples aside by
                    themselves, and on the way He said to them,
             18 "Behold, we are going up to Jerusalem
John 1: 51    And He said to him, "Truly, truly, I say to you, you will see the heavens opened and
                    the angels of  God ascending and descending on the Son of Man."
John 6: 62   "What then if you see the Son of Man ascending to where He was before ?

Rom 10:6    But the righteousness based on faith speaks as follows :
                   "DO NOT SAY IN YOUR HEART, 'WHO WILL ASCEND INTO HEAVEN ?'

Eph. 3: 8       Therefore it says, "WHEN HE ASCENDED ON HIGH,
                       HE LED CAPTIVE A HOST OF CAPTIVES, AND HE GAVE GIFTS TO MEN."
            9   (Now this expression, "He ascended," what does it mean except that
                 He also had descended  into the lower parts of the earth ?
          10   He who descended is Himself also He who ascended far above all the heavens,
                 so that He might fill all ...)
Rev 4:1 …and the first voice which I had heard, like the sound of a trumpet speaking with me said,
                         "Come up here, and I will show you what must take place …"

11.  And here, incredibly,  “anabaino” and “harpazo” are used --->  in the same verse! <---

Acts 8: 39 39 When they came up out of the water,  (ANABAINO) 
                      the Spirit of the Lord snatched Philip away (HARPAZO)
                      and the eunuch no longer saw him, but went on his way rejoicing.
Do you still want to say John was “raptured” in Revelation 4:1?
 –Clearly, “anabaino” is NEVER used as a “rapture” verb anywhere in scripture..