Rapture When: Resolved by Resurrection

by rory moore

A Rapture When? Let's make it a Simple Truth  II

Did Paul write of a POST or PRE -tribulation "gathering" (aka "rapture") ?? 
Let's see...
1. as he wrote in 1 Thess 4:16-18  .... the dead in Christ are raised FIRST.

And so we have the KEY QUESTION: WHEN are the dead raised? 

We will use the key to prove the "rapture" for "our gathering", and including those "who are alive and remain" living, and the preceding mention of the dead in Christ who rise FIRST. 

Because we find in 1Cor 15:51-52 for us to see the Resurrection:
 "Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will ALL be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the ***LAST*** TRUMPET; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed."
 
So we note "ALL" are "changed" on the same day.

When the dead in Christ are "raised", it is the "resurrection".
Jesus taught on the resurrection four times in John 6 when He
said  He will raise ALL who have believed on Him on the last day. (John 6:39,40,44,54). 

Those who are "raised" < i.e. "changed" > are raised on the same day.
There is only ONE (first) resurrection of the saints in Christ..
 Jesus is gathering His elect, His people, after the tribulation (Matt 24:29-31).  There is not a separate gathering for one group of Jews after a "raptured" church, because John SAW martyred saints from all tribes tongues, and nations that "came out of great tribulation".

Rev. 7: I saw, and behold, a great multitude, which no man could number, from every nation and of all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, arrayed in white robes, and palms in their hands;
 10 and they cry with a great voice, saying, Salvation unto our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.
13 And one of the elders answered, saying to me, 

These that are arrayed in the white robes, who are they, and from where came they? 
14 And I said to him, My lord, you know. And he said to me, 

These are they that come out of the great tribulation, and they washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.  (note: NOT Jews only)

The last trumpet sounds on the last day, and Jesus said that was after the tribulation (Matt 24:29-31). Jesus and Paul agree on the timing and it is not pre-tribulation, but "AFTER the tribulation".

When you see the correct order and time of the resurrection, when "we shall be changed", the when and who fall right into place and the "pre-trib" explanations and reasonings, are all answered. 

The "first resurrection" is specific in Revelation 20:4-6.
Who is in the "first resurrection" after the tribulation?

Here is the simple truth:

Rev. 20:4   And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:

 === > and I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus

and for the word of God, and such as worshiped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand;

and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.  
5 …….. This is the first resurrection.

....  The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished.

6)   Blessed and holy is he that has part in the first resurrection
over these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The first resurrection  of  “them that are fallen asleep” that is near simultaneous with the "harpazo" of 1Thess. 4 and 1Cor. 15  is in Rev 20 and includes the martyred tribulation saints!

That's right, there is only ONE "first resurrection" of those "in Christ" and it includes them that refuse the mark during the tribulation. All are "raptured" together in the "first resurrection.
Therefore there simply cannot be a "pre- or mid trib rapture" because all living and dead in Christ are gathered  at the same time, "in a moment, and in the twinkling of an eye..".

And that is the simple truth.

An accurate Prophecy by Stanley Frodsham 1965

An Accurate End-Time Warning

Prophecy by Stanley Frodsham 1965  

Great darkness is coming upon the countries that have heard My gospel but no longer walk in it. My wrath shall be manifested against all ungodliness. It shall come with great intensity. My judgments are literal, and not a thing to be lightly passed over. Before I visit the nations in judgment, I will begin at My house.
When I do cause My wrath to come upon the cities of the world, My people shall be separate. I desire a people without spot or wrinkle, and such shall be preserved by Me in the time of My wrath coming upon all iniquity and unrighteousness.

I am going to prepare you for the coming days by a hard path that will cause you to cry out continually unto Me. For when the going is easy, men do not seek Me, but rejoice in a temporary blessing. And when that blessing is removed, they so often turn this way and that way, but do not come to Me. I am showing you these things that you may seek Me continually and with great diligence. As you seek Me, I will open up truths to you that you have not seen before, truths that will enable you to stand in the last days.

Coming Glory and Deceiving Spirits

When I visit My people in mighty revival power it is to prepare them for the darkness ahead. With the glory shall come great darkness, for the glory is to prepare My people for the darkness. I will enable My people to go through because of the visitation of My Spirit. Take heed to yourselves lest ye be puffed up and think that you have arrived. 
Listen to the messengers, but do not hold man's persons in admiration. For many whom I shall anoint mightily with signs and miracles shall become lifted up and shall fall by the wayside. I do not do this willingly; I have made provision that they might stand.

I call many into this ministry and equip them, but remember that many shall fall. They shall be like bright lights, and the people shall delight in them. But they shall be taken over by deceiving spirits, and shall lead many of My people astray.

Hearken diligently concerning these things, for in the last days shall come seducing spirits 1Timothy 4:1) that shall turn many of My anointed ones away.
Many shall fall through divers lusts and because of sin abounding.
But if you will seek Me diligently I will put My Spirit within you (Ezekiel 36:27).
When one shall turn to the right hand or to the left hand, you shall not turn with them, but keep your eyes wholly on the Lord.  (seek His  Word, His Spirit, His Presence)
The coming days are the most dangerous, difficult and dark, but there shall be a mighty outpouring of My Spirit upon many cities; and many shall be destroyed.
My people must be diligently warned concerning the days that are ahead. Many shall turn after seducing spirits; many are already seducing My people. It is those who do righteousness that are righteous.
Many cover sins by great theological words, but I warn you of seducing spirits who instruct My people in an evil way.

Many shall come with seducing spirits and hold out lustful enticements.
You will find that after I have visited My people again, the way shall become more and more narrow, and fewer shall walk therein.
But, be not deceived, the ways of righteousness are My ways. For though Satan come as an angel of light (II Corinthians 11:13-15), hearken not to him; for those who perform miracles and speak not righteousness are not of Me.
I warn you with great intensity that I am going to judge My house and have a church without spot or wrinkle when I come.

I desire to open your eyes and give you spiritual understanding that you may not be deceived, but may walk in uprightness of heart before Me, loving righteousness and hating every evil way.
Look unto Me, and l, will make you to perceive with the eyes of the Spirit the things that lurk in darkness, that are not visible to the human eye.
Let Me lead you in this way that you may perceive the powers of darkness and battle against them. It is not a battle against flesh and blood, for if you battle in that way, you accomplish nothing.
But if you let Me take over and battle against the powers of darkness, then they are defeated; and then liberation is brought to My people.

The Way of Deceivers

I  warn you to search the Scriptures diligently concerning these last days, for the things that are written shall indeed be made manifest.
There shall come deceivers among My people in increasing number, who shall speak forth the truth and shall gain the favor of the people, for the people shall examine the Scriptures and say, "What these men say is true." Then when they have gained the hearts of the people, then and then only shall they bring out these wrong doctrines.
Therefore, I say that you should not give your hearts to men, nor hold people's persons in admiration. For by these very persons shall Satan enter into My people.

Watch for seducers 1Timothy 3:13).
Do you think a seducer will brandish a new heresy and flaunt it before the people? He will speak the words of righteousness and truth and will appear as a minister of light, declaring the Word.
The people's hearts shall be won; they will bring out their doctrines, and the people shall be deceived.

The people shall say, "Did he not speak thus and thus? And did we not examine it from the Word? Therefore he is a minister of righteousness. That he has now spoken we do not see in the Word, but it must be right, for the other things he spoke were true."

Be not deceived, for the deceiver will first work to gain the hearts of many and then shall bring forth his insidious doctrines.
You cannot discern those who are of Me and those who are not of Me when they start to preach.
But seek Me constantly, and then when these doctrines are brought out, you shall have a witness in your heart that these are not of Me. Fear not, for I have warned you.
Many will be deceived, but if you walk in holiness and uprightness before the Lord, your eyes shall be opened, and the Lord will protect you. If you will constantly look unto the Lord, you will know when the doctrine changes, and you will not be brought into it.
If your heart is right, I will keep you, and if you will look constantly to Me, I will uphold you.

The minister of righteousness shall be on this wise: his life shall agree with the Word, and his lips shall give forth that which is wholly true, and it will be no mixture.
When the mixture appears, then you will know he is not a minister of righteousness.
The deceivers speak first the truth and then error to cover their own sins, which they love. Therefore, I exhort and command you to study the Scriptures relative to seducing spirits, for this is one of the great dangers of these last days.

I desire you to be firmly established in My Word, and not in the personalities of men, that you will not be moved as so many shall be moved. I would keep you in the paths of righteousness. Take heed to yourselves, and follow not the seducing spirits that are already manifesting themselves.
Diligently inquire of Me when you hear something that you have not seen in the Word, and do not hold people's persons in admiration, for it is by this very method that Satan will hold many of My people.

The Way of Triumph

I  have come that you might have life and have it more abundantly, that you may triumph where I triumphed. On the cross I triumphed over all the powers of Satan, and I have called you to walk the same path. It is when your life is on the cross that you shall know the victory that I have experienced. As you are on the cross and seated in Me, then you shall know the power of the resurrection.

When I come in My glory, the principalities and powers in the heavenly places shall be broken. Fret not, for I have given you power whereby you may tread down the powers of darkness and come forth victoriously. It was on the cross that I triumphed over all the powers of the enemy. My life shall flow through you as you enter into these precious truths. Look unto Me, and appropriate My life. As your eyes and desires are toward Me, and you know what it is to be crucified with Me, then you shall live, and your anointing shall increase.

It was not in My life that I walked upon the earth, but it was in My life when I was upon the cross that I openly spoiled principalities and powers (Colossians 2:15). I am showing you truth that shall cause you to overcome, to have power over the wicked one-truth that will liberate you and those around you. You shall know also the fellowship of My sufferings. There is no other way whereby you may partake of this heavenly glory and reign with Me. "If we suffer, we shall reign with Him" (II Timothy 2:12 KJV).


I desire to make these truths real within you. As you keep them before you, you will liberate many who are in bondage. You will have revelations of those in darkness and will have the keys to liberate the captives.
Many seek to liberate, but they have not the keys. Upon the cross continually you will know the power of My resurrection that you may also partake of My glory.

As you are willing to walk with Me and rejoice in your sufferings, you shall partake of My glory. Look unto Me, for ye have need of power to overcome the wicked one and the bondage in other lives.

If you will indeed judge yourself, you shall not be judged 1Corinthians 11:31).
As you seek My face and desire to be cleansed by Me in all truth and sincerity of heart, I will judge you in the secret place, and the things that are in the secret place of your heart shall not be made manifest to others. I will do it in the secret place, and no man shall know it, and the shame that shall be seen on many faces shall not be seen on your face. Therefore, in love and mercy I am instructing you, and, therefore, have I said that if a man judge himself, he shall not be judged. It is not My good pleasure that the shame of My people be seen by all. How can I judge the world if I judge not first My own house? Hearken unto these things I am telling you. If you will not hearken to Me, your shame shall be evident to all.


God's Part and Our Part

I would have you consider My life on earth-the anointing upon Me was great. Yet the temptations were great on every side, in one form and then in another, offering Me first the glory of the kingdoms of the earth, and then reviling and persecuting Me. There will be great glory given to My people, and yet the temptations shall be intensified from every side. Think not that with the glory there shall be no temptations or persecutions.
The glory to My church shall be great, and so shall the temptations from the enemy to turn My people from My paths. I am warning you that when the glory shall be manifested, the temptations shall be great, until very few that start shall finish.



First, there shall be offered them great worldly possessions, and then great revilings and unbelief.

Consider your Lord, that as He walked, so it shall be for you. There shall be need of great intensity of purpose.
At times, everyone shall rise up against you, simply to turn you from the course that I would put you on. It is written of Me that I set My face as a flint to go the direction My Father had prescribed for Me Isaiah 50:7). If you will finish the course the Lord has laid down for you, you will have to set your face as a flint with great determination-you must walk in the course laid down for you.
Many of your loved ones and those who follow with you shall persuade you and try to turn you from the course. With many words that seem right in the natural will they speak to you. Did not Christ rebuke Peter, who would turn Him from the course God had prescribed? (Matthew 16:22, 23)

Understand these two things and meditate upon them solemnly: the persecution and the darkness shall be as great as the glory, in order to try to turn the elect and the anointed ones from the path the Lord has laid down for them.
Many shall start, but few shall be able to finish because of the greatness of grace that shall be needed to be able to endure unto the end.
The temptation and persecution of your Lord was continuous. He was tempted by Satan in many forms throughout His entire life, and even on the cross when the ungodly cried out, "If thou be the Christ, come down from the cross."
Think not that there shall be a time of no persecution, for it shall be from the time of your anointing unto the end-difficulties and great persecution to the end. The Lord must prepare you to be an overcomer in all things, that you may be able to finish the course.
The persecution shall increase, even as the anointing shall increase.

In paths of judgment and righteousness shall the Lord God lead His people and bring them into that place which He has chosen for them. For the Lord has chosen a place for His people, a place of righteousness and holiness where He shall encamp round about them, and all who will be led of the Lord shall be brought into this holy place, for the Lord delights to dwell in His people and to manifest Himself through His people. The holiness of the Lord shall be manifested through his people. Let the Lord lead you in difficult places. He led His people of old through the place where no man dwelt, where no man had passed through- in a place of great danger, and in the shadow of death. The Lord will indeed lead His people through such places, and yet He will bring them out into a place of great glory. Understand that the way toward the glory is fraught with great danger, and many shall fall to the right or to the left; many shall camp on lesser ground, but the Lord has a place of holiness, and no unclean things shall dwell among His people.

Put your trust in Him, and He will bring you into a place of holiness. He desires to bring His people into great glory, the like of which has never been seen: what the Lord will do for those who put their trust in Him.
It is a place of darkness and great danger that separates His people into the place He would have them walk in. He will protect them from the voices that would turn them from His path.
He will bring them through the dark places, and through the treacherous paths, out into the light of His glory. He will rejoice greatly over His beloved, and cause you to be filled with joy unspeakable. He seeks to lead His people into a new place of grace and glory where He will indeed encamp among them. Put your trust in Him, and He will surely bring you into this new place.

Fear not the days to come, but fear this only: that you shall walk in a manner pleasing to the Lord.
In this time I am ordering and setting up My church, and it shall indeed be pure, without spot or wrinkle. I will do a work in My beloved that has not been seen since the foundation of the world. I have shown you these things that you may seek the Lord diligently with all your heart, and that you may be a preserver of His people.

Run not to this one nor to that one,
for the Lord has so ordained that salvation is in Him, and in Him alone.
You shall not turn to this shepherd, or to that one; for there shall be a great scattering upon the earth.

Therefore, look unto Him, for He will indeed make these things clear to you.
You shall not look here nor there, for wells that once had water shall be no more. But, as you diligently seek Him, He shall increase your strength and your faith that He may be able to prepare you for this time that is coming.


The truths that I have revealed to you must become a part of you, not just an experience, but a part of your very nature.
Is it not written that I demand truth in the inward parts? It is the truth of the Lord expressed in your very being that shall hold you. Many shall experience the truth, but the truth must become a part of you-your very life.
As men and women look upon you, they will hear not only the voice, but see the expression of the truth. Many shall be overcome because they are not constant in My ways, and because they have not permitted the truths to become part of them. I am showing you these truths that you may be prepared and having done all, to stand.

An Invitation to Go to Un-Church?

We Went To Church!??

WHAT? The writer that advocates seeking God outside of the walls of a church building found himself in church the other evening?

 -No, it was not a relatives wedding, baptism, children's program, fund raiser, Church Drama, food drive, Ordination Service, Revival Service, Prophecy/ Healing/ Miracle Crusade, Bible Study, Men's Meeting, Staff Meeting, Easter Service, Pastor Appreciation Month, or even the normal routine Sunday meeting.

There were no Big Names, Special Speakers, Doctor of Divinity, mega-church pastors with an entourage, no Italian-suited Apostles, Bishops, Prophets, Purpose Driven Promoter or other titled potentates of Celebrity Christendom. No robed choir and no "worship  team"  was seen.

There was no parking lot, vestibule, no Starbucks in the lobby, no lobby, no pastors office, no display cabinets, nothing was for sale although we did have a chicken dinner, no CD's/DVD's or even a lowly cassette around. 

 There was no pulpit, stage, tele-monitors, microphones, deacons, offering collectors, Special Singers, and not even a pew! There were no ushers, tithe envelopes, no suited orators, no program, no Bulletins, no Classes, no Staff meeting, no song books, no choreographed order of "service". No "special speaker" was flown in and put up in a hotel.

It was unscheduled. There was no one man in charge dominating the gathering.

How in the Name of Denominational Covering can you have church without all that stuff? A REAL church ought to at least have a storefront building you say?  If you don't have that "stuff" and at least a titled Chief Ruler, it's not really a church?

Where were we and what went on that we dare call it .....church?

First let me explain what "church" is. Church is from the Greek word "ekklesia" . What in the world does that mean? Although it was incorrectly translated as "church", it literally means "assembly, congregation, the CALLED OUT ones".   Hence, nobody in God's Word "went to church".  (http://www.biblepages.net/ega061.htm  

Jesus spoke in terms of those whom He called out of apostate Judaism.The folks we gathered with were all ex-"church" goers who had "come out from among them" from various sects of Christianity. No one even gave it a thought that we were conducting a "church" meeting, somehow that small formality was even omitted.

  

There were 11 people there. Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Jesus was among us.

There were two people confirmed healed and afflicting pain in several of them ceased. At one point it appeared a pet dog would not quit barking and we rebuked it and the dog immediately became quiet..

We had a meal together, testified, taught, edified one anothers' faith, prayed for one another, and shared the Word of God. 1Cor 14:26 What is it then, brethren? When ye come together, each one hath a psalm, hath a teaching, hath a revelation, hath a tongue, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

 We were in agreement and like-minded even though we barely knew each other and came from very different backrounds.Phil 2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind..

Oh yes, we met in a house.

Acts 5:42 ... and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus ChristActs 16:32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.Rom 16: 5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house.

 No one announced we would have a "church" meeting, "go to church", or "meet at the church". As we drove home it dawned on us, we were "the church" tonite !!! We were together most of the day, from 3pm to after 11.   It was not until later that we realized we had been to "church" because NONE of the typical "stuff" of a traditional church were evident!  

The simplicity of it all points out to us how far the modern American church has strayed from the simple gatherings of the disciples as in the book of Acts.

Yes friends, it was true and what we experienced was a picture of what "church" is going to look like for millions of Christians who "come out from among them", i.e. the fallen, competitive, sectarian, self-serving apostate kingdoms and religions of Christianity. 

 No one was "puffed up", but all were "built up".

 It was the best "church service" we have been to and completely devoid of what we now recognize as completely unnecessary clutter, tradition, and ridiculous formality orchestrated every Sunday.

 I can't wait for it to happen again.

Should we Leave LEFT BEHIND On the Shelf?

Should we leave "Left Behind" on the shelf? Let's test.
-by rory moore

Lets see how the dead in Christ are raised first, then the living are caught up with them.

1.  WHO is "caught Up"? 

      First look at the order and just who goes up when  "The DEAD IN CHRIST rise first.  

            a. 1st Thessalonians 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;  
            b 1Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.   
            c. 23   But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits; then they that are Christ`s, at his coming.
            d. 42  So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; and raised in incorruption:
            e. 51     I tell you a mystery: We all shall not sleep (in death), but we shall all be changed,
            f.  52     in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised, and we shall be changed.

So it is the dead that are raised first, and the dead are raised in the "first resurrection" according to scripture. Understanding when the first resurrection takes place, and who is in it should simplify this.

 2.  The "first resurrection" is after the tribulation. Rev. 20:5-6

 3.  The "dead in Christ" must include the "dead in the Lord" who die during the tribulation because they refused the mark of the beast.

 4. There is ONE body of Christ and the body of Christ includes both Jews and gentiles  (Eph. 2) The body of Christ at first was a Jewish church. Later gentiles were grafted in.  The Jewish church gave recognition to the gentiles and Jews having one faith, one covenant, and there is "no difference between" them.
       a. Acts 15:9 9 and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
       b. Eph. 2:14  For he is our peace, who made both one/ that he might create in himself of the two one new man, so making peace;  16  and might reconcile them both in one body unto God through the cross

      c. 1 Cor 12:13   For in one Spirit were we all baptized into ONE BODY, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit.

4.  There is One body, One Covenant, and the idea that God is rapturing a Jewish-gentile church out and turn to the Jew, and then they tribulation Jews then go and evangelize the whole world including the gentiles is preposterous.  But it does sell a lot of books and movie tickets.

 5. The church of Jesus Christ is called by a number of names: bride, body of Christ, church, saints, elect, election, disciples, a holy nation, and Christians.    It was created with Jews first and then gentiles, and became the "ONE body" of Christ.

6. Christ said after 3 days He would raise His body. He said He would raise the dead. His own physical body would be raised, and so would His corporate body.
Jn 6:54 He that eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life and I will raise him up at the last day.   
John 2:19  Jesus answered them, Destroy this temple,  in three days I will raise it up.
2Corinthians 4:14  knowing that he that raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also with Jesus,  and shall present us with you.      

      

The dead are raised at the "last day", as Christ said four times in John 6.   
John 6:39    And this is the will of him that sent me, that of all that which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
John 6:40  …..every one that sees the Son, and believes on him,  should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
:44  no man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.
:54 He that eats my flesh and drinks my blood hath eternal life: and I will raise him up at the last day. 

How might the dead be raised? -will it be by the Word, a voice, a shout and will it be "COME FORTH!!" as with Lazarus, i.e the sound of the trump??? 

Trust Not the Big Name ministry’s that sell their errors.

Jeremiah 14:13

Then said I, Ah, Lord! the <false> prophets say to them, You shall not see the sword, neither shall you have famine; but I will give you assured peace in this place.

 Is God's "house" a building or a body?

 1 Peter 2:5        you also, ... are built up a  spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, to offer up  > spiritual sacrifices…

Notice the words,  "spiritual house"... "spiritual sacrifices".

 Can unconverted Jews (with the Vatican and Freemasons) build a temple made with hands, and offer rejected sacrifices, but somehow it will become "holy"? 

How a building can be God’s house? -when God said the very opposite! 

Accordingly, there is ONE spiritual house and it is a body in which there is "neither Jew nor Greek".  God is not going to raise the dead in part and turn to the Jews and have a second "first resurrection" which the "Pre-Trib" teaches.. 

The "kicker" being that there are also saved gentiles that come out of "great tribulation"!

Rev. 7:9 After these things I saw, and behold, a great multitude, which no man could number, out of every nation and of [all] tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, arrayed in white robes, and palms in their hands.
:13 And one of the elders answered, saying to me, These that are arrayed in white robes, WHO ARE THEY, and WHERE did they come from?  :14 And he said to me, These are they that came of the great tribulation, and they washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

  What body would be raised up on the "THIRD DAY"?

 (Coincidentally, it is now the beginning of the third millennial "day" since Jesus prophesied a dual prophecy when He said "destroy THIS temple and in THREE DAYS I will raise it up". -but He spoke of the temple of His body.”)

 One body He would raise in three regular days, as a "figure", the other body He would raise up in 3 millennial days. 

That time is written of as the "first resurrection”  after the tribulation:

 Rev. 20:4  And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony about Jesus and for proclaiming the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his statue, nor accepted his mark on their foreheads or their hands. 

They all came to life again, and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 

:5  This is the first resurrection.  (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.) 

6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. 

Is that now obvious?  
The "first resurrection" is after the tribulation, the dead are raised, which is what 1Thessalonians 4 says "the dead in Christ rise first, then we which are alive and remain to the coming of the Lord...

“Left Behind" and the Pre-trib is a deadly deception that sells well but is contrary to God’s Word.

Help For Church-Hurts (and Abuse by Clergy)

Spiritual Abuse And How to Overcome 
-rory moore

 You would think churches would be safe havens from the dog-eat-dog world around us but the truth is many are very unsafe places. (-That is unless you just go to service, toss in your offering, leave without any real interaction with the assembly, and give unquestioning loyalty to the leadership..   )

 In 24 years of "church" life, we could fill a book with not only our own personal stories, but also from a multitude of church workers and friends from other assemblies. 

In the institutionalized, church world, "Touch not mine anointed" and"obey them that have the rule over you" are two of the most mis-used verses in the Bible. They are used to create an environment where the pastor/priest/Bishop is right, even when he is wrong, and woe be to those who become a perceived threat to their authority .

Personally witnessed  Examples of church abuse:

• members marginalized, falsely accused, slandered, and falsely labeled by their pastor.
• a pastor micro-managing his leaders lives in every church service. They demand leaders sit in a certain place, dress a certain way, always smile and act happy, and controls who, where, and how they fellowship. He controls the books they read and requires strict attendance to every meeting.
• financial abuse and manipulation of scripture used to support a self-serving ministry and clergy lifestyle.
• the rampant use of fear as a tactic to control, "lord over", and dominate people in the pews.
• what you $$gave determined whether or not you got the pastors attention and/or a position in leadership.  Legalistic tithing required for leadership.
• a brother rebuked for arriving late to a prayer service when his wife was going into labor contractions.
• an adulterous pastor committing MURDER, refusing to relinquish his position and control of church business management, and members who continued to submit to him while the affair continued.
• pastors managing a church like it was a family business (which it was), with questionable and possibly illegal financial practices that were never questioned by the elders.
• pastors often getting a free pass when it came to people abuse, financial mis-management, and teaching error.
• 
  

-So often people are in unspoken fear of the leader. People are to question or challenge them scripturally even when they are in obvious error or misconduct. 

These and similar are all too often found among churches both institutional and independent. We are among many witnesses!

 Paul also wrote the Corinth church mentioning some of these abusers!
2Corinthians 11: ¹⁸ And since others boast about their human achievements, I will, too. 

¹⁹ After all, you think you are so wise, but you enjoy putting up with fools! 

²⁰ You put up with it when someone enslaves you, devours you (takes your identity in Christ), takes advantage of you, takes control of everything, and slaps you in the face. 

²¹ I’m ashamed to say that we’ve been too “weak” to do that! (Paul never took from them nor sought to “own” them as “his church”.)

This site might be meaningful to some and helpful to others caught in an abusive church:

 Spiritual abuse website and testimonies. When we came out from the church system, we found countless others who were jaded or suffered from the "deeds of the Nicolaitanes" (clergy ruling laity)..

 "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse"  by  David Johnson & Jeff Van Vonderen A book for many who have been hurt.  Here are a few excerpts: 

“Unspoken Rules

“… we must never disagree with the pastor on his sermons—and if you do, you will never be trusted and never be allowed to minister in any capacity in this church.”
In this case, the unspoken rule is: Do not disagree with the church authorities —especially the pastor—or your loyalty will be suspect.
Rules like this remain unspoken, because examining them in the light of mature dialogue would instantly reveal how illogical, unhealthy and anti-Christian they are. 

... silence becomes the fortress wall of protection, shielding the pastor’s power position from scrutiny or challenge.” (p.67)

“If you speak about the problem out loud, you are the problem.” The truth is, when people talk about problems out loud, they don't cause them, they simply expose them.” (p.68)

“Too many churches communicate this kind of shaming message: ‘The problem is not that your boundaries were crossed and violated, the problem is that you talked. If you would not have made such a big deal, everything would still be fine.’

4.  Lack of Balance

“This approach to spirituality creates a system in which authority is based upon the level of education (Bible college, DD's, etc) and intellectual capacity alone, (= i.e.carnal authority –rm=)   rather than intimacy with God, obedience and sensitivity to his Spirit.” (p.70)

They tie up heavy loads, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger (Matt. 23:4).     (We saw this with so many fundraisers where a pastor sent out church people to sell or market various merchandise and multi-level businesses ‘for the church’
–rm)

5. Paranoia:  “In a place where authority is grasped and legislated, not simply demonstrated, persecution sensitivity builds a case for keeping everything within the system.

 Why? Because of the evil, dangerous, or unspiritual people outside of the system who are trying to weaken or destroy ‘us’. This mentality builds a strong wall or bunker around the abusive system, isolates the abusers from scrutiny and accountability, and makes it more difficult for people to leave—because they will be outsiders, too.” (p.73)

 Ironically, Jesus and Paul both warned that one of the worst dangers to the flock was from in-house wolves (Matthew 10:16; Acts 20:29-30).” (p.74)

6. Misplaced Loyalty

“The next characteristic of spiritually abusive systems is that a misplaced sense of loyalty is fostered and even demanded. We’re not talking about loyalty to Christ, but about loyalty to a given organization, church, or leader.” (p.76) 

 “A common way this is accomplished is by setting up a system where disloyalty to or disagreement with the leadership is construed as the same thing as disobeying God. Questioning leaders is equal to questioning God. After all, the leader is the authority, and authority is always right. 

This causes people to misplace their loyalty in a leader, a church or an organization.” (p.76)  

 “There are three factors that come into play here, adding up to misplaced loyalty. First, leadership projects a ‘we alone are right’ mentality, which permeates the system. Members must remain in the system if they want to be ‘safe,’ or to stay ‘on good terms’ with God, or not to be viewed as wrong or ‘backslidden.’     (or under "spiritual covering", for which there is no scripture in the NT).

The second factor that brings about misplaced loyalty is the use of ‘scare tactics.’ For example:
God is going to withdraw His Spirit from you and your family.
God will destroy your business.
Without our protection, Satan will get your children.  You and your family will come under a curse.

 The third method of calling forth misplaced loyalty is the threat of humiliation. This is done by publicly shaming, exposing, or threatening to remove people from the group.   

 In the abusive system, it is the fear of being exposed, humiliated or removed that insures your proper allegiance, and insulates those in authority. (The pastor was protected by the group and loyalty to him was promoted)  You can be ‘exposed’ for asking too many questions, for disobeying the unspoken rules, or for disagreeing with authority.

People are made public examples in order to send a message to those who remain. Others have phone campaigns launched against them, to warn their friends and others in the group about how ‘dangerous’ they are.” (p.76,77)
(end of quote)

Given the fact that hired pastors have a paycheck and career , is there any wonder that any real or perceived threat to their "ministry" must be dealt with quickly.  In our past, a policy called "The 24 Hour Rule" in which any "discord" must to be reported within 24 hours. 

So it was, after 24 years of committed loyalty to the system at our old church we finally found ourselves in the position of marginalization and "discord sowing". - (as we mentioning and questioned the lack of scripture for money  tithing).

Thankfully, we now realize this was what God used in our lives to deliver us from bondage to a manmade system.  We left.

Someone is going to read this and begin to recognize they are caught in a church system.
Others will recognize the abusiveness of the church group they left behind.

One thing is certain, no matter what your experience may have been, Jesus taught to forgive "70 times 7".   We are tempted with the thoughts of the hurts far more than actual incidents.

 Forgiveness may be a cross to bear, but we are given no choice:
"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man would come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."

 "And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
And bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. (whose voice do you think reminds you of those hurts?)

 
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

Please,  this does not justify evil abuse of position by church leaders, but it does mean we can overcome as we “exercise” forgiveness in committing these to the Lord, “casting our care upon Him..” and “forgetting those thing which are behind we press on the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus”.

In doing, we must “cast down imaginations (thoughts) and >> every thought << which exalts itself above God’s knowledge” (His knowledge as revealed in His Word).

It is hard to walk forward while dragging the past like a ball and chain on our ankle..

1Corinthians 10:5  (NASB) renders this as:
 We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ..

The BIG Picture.

Where was Jesus persecuted and His disciples afterward? Was it not among His own people and the religious establishment that were counted as God’s people? Who did Saul persecute in Acts 7 and 8?

When we realize the author of our salvation suffered at the hands of the Pharisees and rulers of God’s people, and we are called to walk in His steps, we can thank Him for those things as we trust Him in all we have been through and will go through.

The NLT says this so well:
Romans 8:17 New Living Translation
17 And since we are his children, we are his heirs. In fact, together with Christ we are heirs of God’s glory. But if we are to share his glory, we must also share his suffering.

In the “Big Picture” we see God using them to perfect and refine through suffering, help us die to self, to learn and practice forgiveness.

 Therefore we are to give thanks to the Father and rejoice to be counted worthy to suffer as it is Christ working in us for our good.
And that is how we overcome spiritual abuse God’s Way.