Annihilationism Cessationism Does Not Add Up

After the body dies, what happens?
A number of words are used in regard to what comes to pass: forever, eternal, everlasting.

( you may want to see the article "Where Did Hell Go?" on this site where these terms are defined.)

What I  have observed in regard to this everlasting subject is that scoffers are zealous in promoting their ideas that contradict the plain reading of God's Word. In doing so they become evangelists for a lie. 2. They will use human reasonings and emotional trigger words to attack what scripture says. ex.: "is God an eternal torturer??"


Isa_33:14 The sinners in Zion are afraid; fearfulness has surprised the hypocrites. Who among us shall live with the devouring fire? who among us shall dwell with everlasting burnings?

Mat_18:8 Wherefore if thy hand or thy foot offend thee, cut them off, and cast them from thee: it is better for thee to enter into life halt or maimed, rather than having two hands or two feet to be cast into everlasting fire. (WHAT KIND OF FIRE?)

Mat_25:41 Then shall he say also unto them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
Mat_25:46 And these shall go away into everlasting punishment:
(HOW LONG IS THE PUNISHMENT?) but the righteous into life eternal. 

2Th_1:9 Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction
(YES DEATH & DESTRUCTION BUT HOW LONG IS THIS DESTRUCTION?)

Jude1:6 And the angels which kept not their first estate (heaven), but left their own habitation, he has reserved in everlasting chains under darkness to the judgment of the great day. 

(( these wicked angels will be released upon earth during the great day/ tribulation ))

Rev. 9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. (rev 9. rev 11. rev 17. rev 20 also speak of the bottomless pit)

Rev. 20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (HOW LONG?)
Rev_14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever:
(HOW LONG IS THE TORMENT?) and they have no rest day nor night.

Jude 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

2Pe_2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.

• "...and man became a living soul..." 
• Nowhere do I read where a soul ceases to exist.
  Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived *them* was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet; 
• 
  WHO is "them" and "they"?
   and *they* shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.
  answer: back in vs.5
  The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished.

Souls:
Genesis 2:7 And YHWH God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life
and man became a living soul.

Mark 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?

Ezekiel 18:20 The soul that sinneth, it shall die.

Ezekiel 18:4 Behold, all souls are mine; as the soul of the father, so also the soul of the son is mine: the soul that sinneth, it shall die.
The souls of lost men receive resurrected bodies also in Rev. 20:5
Death of the body that houses the soul that God created does not become annihilated, but is judged "according to his works".

-If annihilation was true, there is no cause for judgment of each soul works because all lost receive the same same annihilation.
But Jesus taught some receive "greater judgment".......

How can some receive "greater judgment" if the lost are all simply "annihilated"?

………………
Reason annihilation is error:

This passage shows some things that refute some previous things said about God creating life.
Revelation 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder, whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world, when they behold the beast that was, and is not, and yet is.

-there is no time in eternity, time itself is a creation. ("time shall be no more") All life goes into eternity... eternal life is timeless and eternal torment is timeless...

 I would agree the judgment is eternal, meaning forever fixed. "where the tree falls, there shall it lie". But eternal judgment is not the cessation of consciousness and existence because the "beast", "false prophet", devil, all suffer eternal torment...

The pit, bowels of the earth, smoke, etc.. are never said to cease.

There's a beast, which WAS, and IS NOT, and yet this "beast" shall ascend out of somewhere.. and go somewhere.

 It is a beast which "is not", yet "IS". -And this "beast" has been some where, i.e. "the pit".

..........

Job 33:18 He keeps back his soul from the pit

Psalms 28:1 to thee will I cry, O LORD my rock; be not silent to me: lest, if thou be silent to me,

===> I become like them that go down into the pit.<===

===> Ezekiel 26:20 When I shall bring thee down *with them that descend into the pit*, with the people of old time, and shall set thee in ===> the low parts of the earth, in places desolate of old, with them that go down to the pit...

Rev 9:2 And he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit, as the smoke of a great furnace; and the sun and the air were darkened ===> by reason of the smoke of the pit.<==

Revelation 17:8 The beast that you saw was, and is not; and shall ascend out of the bottomless pit, and go into perdition: and they that dwell on the earth shall wonder,

===> whose names were not written in the book of life from the foundation of the world... <===

Revelation 14:11 ==>And the smoke of their torment <== ascends up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receives the mark of his name.

==> by reason of the smoke of the pit.<==

===>*with them that descend into the pit*<===

===> he opened the bottomless pit; and there arose a smoke out of the pit<==>==>And the smoke of their torment <== ascendeth up for ever and ever<===>When I shall bring thee down *with them that descend into the pit*, with the people of old time, and shall set thee in ===> the low parts of the earth,<===>lest, if thou be silent to me, I become like them that go down into the pit.<===

..................

The beast does not cease, the pit does not cease, the smoke of their torment does not cease, the devil goes there and does not cease to exist in torment, and the devil does not even have an earthly physical body.

...........................

Isaiah 14:15 Yet yhou shalt be brought down to hell, to the sides of the pit.

Psalms 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell.....

Proverbs 9:18 But he knoweth not that the dead are there; and that her guests are in the depths of hell.

Isaiah 5:14 Therefore hell has enlarged herself,

Matthew 10:28 And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell. -and he gave an example of this in Luke 16 of the rich man in tormented flame.

SUMMARY:
"The SUM of thy Word is truth"
For anihilationism to be true (it is also Jehovah Witness doctrine BTW), it would need to reconcile with scripture "line upon line, line upon line". But it runs smack into scripture that tells us death is the final judgment, and the place of death is in a lake of fire that burns forever and ever.
==> Psalms 9:17 The wicked shall be turned into hell..... NOT cessation of existence.
Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascends up
 ===> for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night <===, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receives the mark of his name.
-NOT they cease to exist for ever
"they have no rest" NOT: they cease to exist and have no rest.
Revelation 20:10 And the devil that deceived *them* was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where are also the beast and the false prophet;
WHO is "them" and "they"?
==> and *they* shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever.<===
answer: back in vs.5
The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished. 

NOT: they cease to exist.
DOES THE DEVIL CEASE TO EXIST?
Mat 25:41 Then shall he say also to them on the left hand, Depart from me, ye cursed, into everlasting fire, prepared for the devil and his angels:
DOES the "everlasting fire" cease to exist?
The "cursed go to the "everlasting fire prepared for the devil and demons.
Does the devil and demons cease to exist?

 They do not have mortal flesh bodies either, but somehow the "everlasting fire" is where they go also.
.........
Rev_9:1 And the fifth angel sounded, and I saw a star fall from heaven unto the earth: and to him was given the key of the bottomless pit. (rev 9. rev 11. rev 17. rev 20 also speak of the bottomless pit)

Rev_20:10 And the devil that deceived them was cast into the lake of fire and brimstone, where the beast and the false prophet are, and shall be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (HOW LONG?)

Rev_14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: (HOW LONG WAS THEIR TORMENT?) and they have no rest day nor night.

Jude 1:13 Raging waves of the sea, foaming out their own shame; wandering stars, to whom is reserved the blackness of darkness for ever.

2Pe_2:17 These are wells without water, clouds that are carried with a tempest; to whom the mist of darkness is reserved for ever.
.......

The SUM of thy Word is truth. Cessation-annihilationism does not add up.

Rapture When: Resolved by Resurrection

by rory moore

A Rapture When? Let's make it a Simple Truth  II

Did Paul write of a POST or PRE -tribulation "gathering" (aka "rapture") ?? 
Let's see...
1. as he wrote in 1 Thess 4:16-18  .... the dead in Christ are raised FIRST.

And so we have the KEY QUESTION: WHEN are the dead raised? 

We will use the key to prove the "rapture" for "our gathering", and including those "who are alive and remain" living, and the preceding mention of the dead in Christ who rise FIRST. 

Because we find in 1Cor 15:51-52 for us to see the Resurrection:
 "Behold, I tell you a mystery; we will not all sleep, but we will ALL be changed, in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the ***LAST*** TRUMPET; for the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised imperishable, and we will be changed."
 
So we note "ALL" are "changed" on the same day.

When the dead in Christ are "raised", it is the "resurrection".
Jesus taught on the resurrection four times in John 6 when He
said  He will raise ALL who have believed on Him on the last day. (John 6:39,40,44,54). 

Those who are "raised" < i.e. "changed" > are raised on the same day.
There is only ONE (first) resurrection of the saints in Christ..
 Jesus is gathering His elect, His people, after the tribulation (Matt 24:29-31).  There is not a separate gathering for one group of Jews after a "raptured" church, because John SAW martyred saints from all tribes tongues, and nations that "came out of great tribulation".

Rev. 7: I saw, and behold, a great multitude, which no man could number, from every nation and of all tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, arrayed in white robes, and palms in their hands;
 10 and they cry with a great voice, saying, Salvation unto our God who sits on the throne, and to the Lamb.
13 And one of the elders answered, saying to me, 

These that are arrayed in the white robes, who are they, and from where came they? 
14 And I said to him, My lord, you know. And he said to me, 

These are they that come out of the great tribulation, and they washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.  (note: NOT Jews only)

The last trumpet sounds on the last day, and Jesus said that was after the tribulation (Matt 24:29-31). Jesus and Paul agree on the timing and it is not pre-tribulation, but "AFTER the tribulation".

When you see the correct order and time of the resurrection, when "we shall be changed", the when and who fall right into place and the "pre-trib" explanations and reasonings, are all answered. 

The "first resurrection" is specific in Revelation 20:4-6.
Who is in the "first resurrection" after the tribulation?

Here is the simple truth:

Rev. 20:4   And I saw thrones, and they sat upon them, and judgment was given unto them:

 === > and I saw the souls of them that had been beheaded for the testimony of Jesus

and for the word of God, and such as worshiped not the beast, neither his image, and received not the mark upon their forehead and upon their hand;

and they lived, and reigned with Christ a thousand years.  
5 …….. This is the first resurrection.

....  The rest of the dead lived not until the thousand years should be finished.

6)   Blessed and holy is he that has part in the first resurrection
over these the second death hath no power; but they shall be priests of God and of Christ, and shall reign with him a thousand years.

The first resurrection  of  “them that are fallen asleep” that is near simultaneous with the "harpazo" of 1Thess. 4 and 1Cor. 15  is in Rev 20 and includes the martyred tribulation saints!

That's right, there is only ONE "first resurrection" of those "in Christ" and it includes them that refuse the mark during the tribulation. All are "raptured" together in the "first resurrection.
Therefore there simply cannot be a "pre- or mid trib rapture" because all living and dead in Christ are gathered  at the same time, "in a moment, and in the twinkling of an eye..".

And that is the simple truth.

An accurate Prophecy by Stanley Frodsham 1965

An Accurate End-Time Warning

Prophecy by Stanley Frodsham 1965  

Great darkness is coming upon the countries that have heard My gospel but no longer walk in it. My wrath shall be manifested against all ungodliness. It shall come with great intensity. My judgments are literal, and not a thing to be lightly passed over. Before I visit the nations in judgment, I will begin at My house.
When I do cause My wrath to come upon the cities of the world, My people shall be separate. I desire a people without spot or wrinkle, and such shall be preserved by Me in the time of My wrath coming upon all iniquity and unrighteousness.

I am going to prepare you for the coming days by a hard path that will cause you to cry out continually unto Me. For when the going is easy, men do not seek Me, but rejoice in a temporary blessing. And when that blessing is removed, they so often turn this way and that way, but do not come to Me. I am showing you these things that you may seek Me continually and with great diligence. As you seek Me, I will open up truths to you that you have not seen before, truths that will enable you to stand in the last days.

Coming Glory and Deceiving Spirits

When I visit My people in mighty revival power it is to prepare them for the darkness ahead. With the glory shall come great darkness, for the glory is to prepare My people for the darkness. I will enable My people to go through because of the visitation of My Spirit. Take heed to yourselves lest ye be puffed up and think that you have arrived. 
Listen to the messengers, but do not hold man's persons in admiration. For many whom I shall anoint mightily with signs and miracles shall become lifted up and shall fall by the wayside. I do not do this willingly; I have made provision that they might stand.

I call many into this ministry and equip them, but remember that many shall fall. They shall be like bright lights, and the people shall delight in them. But they shall be taken over by deceiving spirits, and shall lead many of My people astray.

Hearken diligently concerning these things, for in the last days shall come seducing spirits 1Timothy 4:1) that shall turn many of My anointed ones away.
Many shall fall through divers lusts and because of sin abounding.
But if you will seek Me diligently I will put My Spirit within you (Ezekiel 36:27).
When one shall turn to the right hand or to the left hand, you shall not turn with them, but keep your eyes wholly on the Lord.  (seek His  Word, His Spirit, His Presence)
The coming days are the most dangerous, difficult and dark, but there shall be a mighty outpouring of My Spirit upon many cities; and many shall be destroyed.
My people must be diligently warned concerning the days that are ahead. Many shall turn after seducing spirits; many are already seducing My people. It is those who do righteousness that are righteous.
Many cover sins by great theological words, but I warn you of seducing spirits who instruct My people in an evil way.

Many shall come with seducing spirits and hold out lustful enticements.
You will find that after I have visited My people again, the way shall become more and more narrow, and fewer shall walk therein.
But, be not deceived, the ways of righteousness are My ways. For though Satan come as an angel of light (II Corinthians 11:13-15), hearken not to him; for those who perform miracles and speak not righteousness are not of Me.
I warn you with great intensity that I am going to judge My house and have a church without spot or wrinkle when I come.

I desire to open your eyes and give you spiritual understanding that you may not be deceived, but may walk in uprightness of heart before Me, loving righteousness and hating every evil way.
Look unto Me, and l, will make you to perceive with the eyes of the Spirit the things that lurk in darkness, that are not visible to the human eye.
Let Me lead you in this way that you may perceive the powers of darkness and battle against them. It is not a battle against flesh and blood, for if you battle in that way, you accomplish nothing.
But if you let Me take over and battle against the powers of darkness, then they are defeated; and then liberation is brought to My people.

The Way of Deceivers

I  warn you to search the Scriptures diligently concerning these last days, for the things that are written shall indeed be made manifest.
There shall come deceivers among My people in increasing number, who shall speak forth the truth and shall gain the favor of the people, for the people shall examine the Scriptures and say, "What these men say is true." Then when they have gained the hearts of the people, then and then only shall they bring out these wrong doctrines.
Therefore, I say that you should not give your hearts to men, nor hold people's persons in admiration. For by these very persons shall Satan enter into My people.

Watch for seducers 1Timothy 3:13).
Do you think a seducer will brandish a new heresy and flaunt it before the people? He will speak the words of righteousness and truth and will appear as a minister of light, declaring the Word.
The people's hearts shall be won; they will bring out their doctrines, and the people shall be deceived.

The people shall say, "Did he not speak thus and thus? And did we not examine it from the Word? Therefore he is a minister of righteousness. That he has now spoken we do not see in the Word, but it must be right, for the other things he spoke were true."

Be not deceived, for the deceiver will first work to gain the hearts of many and then shall bring forth his insidious doctrines.
You cannot discern those who are of Me and those who are not of Me when they start to preach.
But seek Me constantly, and then when these doctrines are brought out, you shall have a witness in your heart that these are not of Me. Fear not, for I have warned you.
Many will be deceived, but if you walk in holiness and uprightness before the Lord, your eyes shall be opened, and the Lord will protect you. If you will constantly look unto the Lord, you will know when the doctrine changes, and you will not be brought into it.
If your heart is right, I will keep you, and if you will look constantly to Me, I will uphold you.

The minister of righteousness shall be on this wise: his life shall agree with the Word, and his lips shall give forth that which is wholly true, and it will be no mixture.
When the mixture appears, then you will know he is not a minister of righteousness.
The deceivers speak first the truth and then error to cover their own sins, which they love. Therefore, I exhort and command you to study the Scriptures relative to seducing spirits, for this is one of the great dangers of these last days.

I desire you to be firmly established in My Word, and not in the personalities of men, that you will not be moved as so many shall be moved. I would keep you in the paths of righteousness. Take heed to yourselves, and follow not the seducing spirits that are already manifesting themselves.
Diligently inquire of Me when you hear something that you have not seen in the Word, and do not hold people's persons in admiration, for it is by this very method that Satan will hold many of My people.

The Way of Triumph

I  have come that you might have life and have it more abundantly, that you may triumph where I triumphed. On the cross I triumphed over all the powers of Satan, and I have called you to walk the same path. It is when your life is on the cross that you shall know the victory that I have experienced. As you are on the cross and seated in Me, then you shall know the power of the resurrection.

When I come in My glory, the principalities and powers in the heavenly places shall be broken. Fret not, for I have given you power whereby you may tread down the powers of darkness and come forth victoriously. It was on the cross that I triumphed over all the powers of the enemy. My life shall flow through you as you enter into these precious truths. Look unto Me, and appropriate My life. As your eyes and desires are toward Me, and you know what it is to be crucified with Me, then you shall live, and your anointing shall increase.

It was not in My life that I walked upon the earth, but it was in My life when I was upon the cross that I openly spoiled principalities and powers (Colossians 2:15). I am showing you truth that shall cause you to overcome, to have power over the wicked one-truth that will liberate you and those around you. You shall know also the fellowship of My sufferings. There is no other way whereby you may partake of this heavenly glory and reign with Me. "If we suffer, we shall reign with Him" (II Timothy 2:12 KJV).


I desire to make these truths real within you. As you keep them before you, you will liberate many who are in bondage. You will have revelations of those in darkness and will have the keys to liberate the captives.
Many seek to liberate, but they have not the keys. Upon the cross continually you will know the power of My resurrection that you may also partake of My glory.

As you are willing to walk with Me and rejoice in your sufferings, you shall partake of My glory. Look unto Me, for ye have need of power to overcome the wicked one and the bondage in other lives.

If you will indeed judge yourself, you shall not be judged 1Corinthians 11:31).
As you seek My face and desire to be cleansed by Me in all truth and sincerity of heart, I will judge you in the secret place, and the things that are in the secret place of your heart shall not be made manifest to others. I will do it in the secret place, and no man shall know it, and the shame that shall be seen on many faces shall not be seen on your face. Therefore, in love and mercy I am instructing you, and, therefore, have I said that if a man judge himself, he shall not be judged. It is not My good pleasure that the shame of My people be seen by all. How can I judge the world if I judge not first My own house? Hearken unto these things I am telling you. If you will not hearken to Me, your shame shall be evident to all.


God's Part and Our Part

I would have you consider My life on earth-the anointing upon Me was great. Yet the temptations were great on every side, in one form and then in another, offering Me first the glory of the kingdoms of the earth, and then reviling and persecuting Me. There will be great glory given to My people, and yet the temptations shall be intensified from every side. Think not that with the glory there shall be no temptations or persecutions.
The glory to My church shall be great, and so shall the temptations from the enemy to turn My people from My paths. I am warning you that when the glory shall be manifested, the temptations shall be great, until very few that start shall finish.



First, there shall be offered them great worldly possessions, and then great revilings and unbelief.

Consider your Lord, that as He walked, so it shall be for you. There shall be need of great intensity of purpose.
At times, everyone shall rise up against you, simply to turn you from the course that I would put you on. It is written of Me that I set My face as a flint to go the direction My Father had prescribed for Me Isaiah 50:7). If you will finish the course the Lord has laid down for you, you will have to set your face as a flint with great determination-you must walk in the course laid down for you.
Many of your loved ones and those who follow with you shall persuade you and try to turn you from the course. With many words that seem right in the natural will they speak to you. Did not Christ rebuke Peter, who would turn Him from the course God had prescribed? (Matthew 16:22, 23)

Understand these two things and meditate upon them solemnly: the persecution and the darkness shall be as great as the glory, in order to try to turn the elect and the anointed ones from the path the Lord has laid down for them.
Many shall start, but few shall be able to finish because of the greatness of grace that shall be needed to be able to endure unto the end.
The temptation and persecution of your Lord was continuous. He was tempted by Satan in many forms throughout His entire life, and even on the cross when the ungodly cried out, "If thou be the Christ, come down from the cross."
Think not that there shall be a time of no persecution, for it shall be from the time of your anointing unto the end-difficulties and great persecution to the end. The Lord must prepare you to be an overcomer in all things, that you may be able to finish the course.
The persecution shall increase, even as the anointing shall increase.

In paths of judgment and righteousness shall the Lord God lead His people and bring them into that place which He has chosen for them. For the Lord has chosen a place for His people, a place of righteousness and holiness where He shall encamp round about them, and all who will be led of the Lord shall be brought into this holy place, for the Lord delights to dwell in His people and to manifest Himself through His people. The holiness of the Lord shall be manifested through his people. Let the Lord lead you in difficult places. He led His people of old through the place where no man dwelt, where no man had passed through- in a place of great danger, and in the shadow of death. The Lord will indeed lead His people through such places, and yet He will bring them out into a place of great glory. Understand that the way toward the glory is fraught with great danger, and many shall fall to the right or to the left; many shall camp on lesser ground, but the Lord has a place of holiness, and no unclean things shall dwell among His people.

Put your trust in Him, and He will bring you into a place of holiness. He desires to bring His people into great glory, the like of which has never been seen: what the Lord will do for those who put their trust in Him.
It is a place of darkness and great danger that separates His people into the place He would have them walk in. He will protect them from the voices that would turn them from His path.
He will bring them through the dark places, and through the treacherous paths, out into the light of His glory. He will rejoice greatly over His beloved, and cause you to be filled with joy unspeakable. He seeks to lead His people into a new place of grace and glory where He will indeed encamp among them. Put your trust in Him, and He will surely bring you into this new place.

Fear not the days to come, but fear this only: that you shall walk in a manner pleasing to the Lord.
In this time I am ordering and setting up My church, and it shall indeed be pure, without spot or wrinkle. I will do a work in My beloved that has not been seen since the foundation of the world. I have shown you these things that you may seek the Lord diligently with all your heart, and that you may be a preserver of His people.

Run not to this one nor to that one,
for the Lord has so ordained that salvation is in Him, and in Him alone.
You shall not turn to this shepherd, or to that one; for there shall be a great scattering upon the earth.

Therefore, look unto Him, for He will indeed make these things clear to you.
You shall not look here nor there, for wells that once had water shall be no more. But, as you diligently seek Him, He shall increase your strength and your faith that He may be able to prepare you for this time that is coming.


The truths that I have revealed to you must become a part of you, not just an experience, but a part of your very nature.
Is it not written that I demand truth in the inward parts? It is the truth of the Lord expressed in your very being that shall hold you. Many shall experience the truth, but the truth must become a part of you-your very life.
As men and women look upon you, they will hear not only the voice, but see the expression of the truth. Many shall be overcome because they are not constant in My ways, and because they have not permitted the truths to become part of them. I am showing you these truths that you may be prepared and having done all, to stand.

An Invitation to Go to Un-Church?

We Went To Church!??

WHAT? The writer that advocates seeking God outside of the walls of a church building found himself in church the other evening?

 -No, it was not a relatives wedding, baptism, children's program, fund raiser, Church Drama, food drive, Ordination Service, Revival Service, Prophecy/ Healing/ Miracle Crusade, Bible Study, Men's Meeting, Staff Meeting, Easter Service, Pastor Appreciation Month, or even the normal routine Sunday meeting.

There were no Big Names, Special Speakers, Doctor of Divinity, mega-church pastors with an entourage, no Italian-suited Apostles, Bishops, Prophets, Purpose Driven Promoter or other titled potentates of Celebrity Christendom. No robed choir and no "worship  team"  was seen.

There was no parking lot, vestibule, no Starbucks in the lobby, no lobby, no pastors office, no display cabinets, nothing was for sale although we did have a chicken dinner, no CD's/DVD's or even a lowly cassette around. 

 There was no pulpit, stage, tele-monitors, microphones, deacons, offering collectors, Special Singers, and not even a pew! There were no ushers, tithe envelopes, no suited orators, no program, no Bulletins, no Classes, no Staff meeting, no song books, no choreographed order of "service". No "special speaker" was flown in and put up in a hotel.

It was unscheduled. There was no one man in charge dominating the gathering.

How in the Name of Denominational Covering can you have church without all that stuff? A REAL church ought to at least have a storefront building you say?  If you don't have that "stuff" and at least a titled Chief Ruler, it's not really a church?

Where were we and what went on that we dare call it .....church?

First let me explain what "church" is. Church is from the Greek word "ekklesia" . What in the world does that mean? Although it was incorrectly translated as "church", it literally means "assembly, congregation, the CALLED OUT ones".   Hence, nobody in God's Word "went to church".  (http://www.biblepages.net/ega061.htm  

Jesus spoke in terms of those whom He called out of apostate Judaism.The folks we gathered with were all ex-"church" goers who had "come out from among them" from various sects of Christianity. No one even gave it a thought that we were conducting a "church" meeting, somehow that small formality was even omitted.

  

There were 11 people there. Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them. Jesus was among us.

There were two people confirmed healed and afflicting pain in several of them ceased. At one point it appeared a pet dog would not quit barking and we rebuked it and the dog immediately became quiet..

We had a meal together, testified, taught, edified one anothers' faith, prayed for one another, and shared the Word of God. 1Cor 14:26 What is it then, brethren? When ye come together, each one hath a psalm, hath a teaching, hath a revelation, hath a tongue, hath an interpretation. Let all things be done unto edifying.

 We were in agreement and like-minded even though we barely knew each other and came from very different backrounds.Phil 2:2 Fulfil ye my joy, that ye be likeminded, having the same love, being of one accord, of one mind..

Oh yes, we met in a house.

Acts 5:42 ... and in every house, they ceased not to teach and preach Jesus ChristActs 16:32 And they spake unto him the word of the Lord, and to all that were in his house.Rom 16: 5 Likewise greet the church that is in their house.

 No one announced we would have a "church" meeting, "go to church", or "meet at the church". As we drove home it dawned on us, we were "the church" tonite !!! We were together most of the day, from 3pm to after 11.   It was not until later that we realized we had been to "church" because NONE of the typical "stuff" of a traditional church were evident!  

The simplicity of it all points out to us how far the modern American church has strayed from the simple gatherings of the disciples as in the book of Acts.

Yes friends, it was true and what we experienced was a picture of what "church" is going to look like for millions of Christians who "come out from among them", i.e. the fallen, competitive, sectarian, self-serving apostate kingdoms and religions of Christianity. 

 No one was "puffed up", but all were "built up".

 It was the best "church service" we have been to and completely devoid of what we now recognize as completely unnecessary clutter, tradition, and ridiculous formality orchestrated every Sunday.

 I can't wait for it to happen again.

Should we Leave LEFT BEHIND On the Shelf?

Should we leave "Left Behind" on the shelf? Let's test.
-by rory moore

Lets see how the dead in Christ are raised first, then the living are caught up with them.

1.  WHO is "caught Up"? 

      First look at the order and just who goes up when  "The DEAD IN CHRIST rise first.  

            a. 1st Thessalonians 4:16  For the Lord himself shall descend from heaven, with a shout, with the voice of the archangel, and with the trump of God: and the dead in Christ shall rise first;  
            b 1Corinthians 15:22 For as in Adam all die, so also in Christ shall all be made alive.   
            c. 23   But each in his own order: Christ the first fruits; then they that are Christ`s, at his coming.
            d. 42  So also is the resurrection of the dead. It is sown in corruption; and raised in incorruption:
            e. 51     I tell you a mystery: We all shall not sleep (in death), but we shall all be changed,
            f.  52     in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised, and we shall be changed.

So it is the dead that are raised first, and the dead are raised in the "first resurrection" according to scripture. Understanding when the first resurrection takes place, and who is in it should simplify this.

 2.  The "first resurrection" is after the tribulation. Rev. 20:5-6

 3.  The "dead in Christ" must include the "dead in the Lord" who die during the tribulation because they refused the mark of the beast.

 4. There is ONE body of Christ and the body of Christ includes both Jews and gentiles  (Eph. 2) The body of Christ at first was a Jewish church. Later gentiles were grafted in.  The Jewish church gave recognition to the gentiles and Jews having one faith, one covenant, and there is "no difference between" them.
       a. Acts 15:9 9 and he made no distinction between us and them, cleansing their hearts by faith.
       b. Eph. 2:14  For he is our peace, who made both one/ that he might create in himself of the two one new man, so making peace;  16  and might reconcile them both in one body unto God through the cross

      c. 1 Cor 12:13   For in one Spirit were we all baptized into ONE BODY, whether Jews or Greeks, whether bond or free; and were all made to drink of one Spirit.

4.  There is One body, One Covenant, and the idea that God is rapturing a Jewish-gentile church out and turn to the Jew, and then they tribulation Jews then go and evangelize the whole world including the gentiles is preposterous.  But it does sell a lot of books and movie tickets.

 5. The church of Jesus Christ is called by a number of names: bride, body of Christ, church, saints, elect, election, disciples, a holy nation, and Christians.    It was created with Jews first and then gentiles, and became the "ONE body" of Christ.

6. Christ said after 3 days He would raise His body. He said He would raise the dead. His own physical body would be raised, and so would His corporate body.
Jn 6:54 He that eats my flesh and drinks my blood has eternal life and I will raise him up at the last day.   
John 2:19  Jesus answered them, Destroy this temple,  in three days I will raise it up.
2Corinthians 4:14  knowing that he that raised up the Lord Jesus shall raise up us also with Jesus,  and shall present us with you.      

      

The dead are raised at the "last day", as Christ said four times in John 6.   
John 6:39    And this is the will of him that sent me, that of all that which he hath given me I should lose nothing, but should raise it up at the last day.
John 6:40  …..every one that sees the Son, and believes on him,  should have eternal life; and I will raise him up at the last day.
:44  no man can come to me, except the Father that sent me draw him: and I will raise him up in the last day.
:54 He that eats my flesh and drinks my blood hath eternal life: and I will raise him up at the last day. 

How might the dead be raised? -will it be by the Word, a voice, a shout and will it be "COME FORTH!!" as with Lazarus, i.e the sound of the trump??? 

Trust Not the Big Name ministry’s that sell their errors.

Jeremiah 14:13

Then said I, Ah, Lord! the <false> prophets say to them, You shall not see the sword, neither shall you have famine; but I will give you assured peace in this place.

 Is God's "house" a building or a body?

 1 Peter 2:5        you also, ... are built up a  spiritual house to be a holy priesthood, to offer up  > spiritual sacrifices…

Notice the words,  "spiritual house"... "spiritual sacrifices".

 Can unconverted Jews (with the Vatican and Freemasons) build a temple made with hands, and offer rejected sacrifices, but somehow it will become "holy"? 

How a building can be God’s house? -when God said the very opposite! 

Accordingly, there is ONE spiritual house and it is a body in which there is "neither Jew nor Greek".  God is not going to raise the dead in part and turn to the Jews and have a second "first resurrection" which the "Pre-Trib" teaches.. 

The "kicker" being that there are also saved gentiles that come out of "great tribulation"!

Rev. 7:9 After these things I saw, and behold, a great multitude, which no man could number, out of every nation and of [all] tribes and peoples and tongues, standing before the throne and before the Lamb, arrayed in white robes, and palms in their hands.
:13 And one of the elders answered, saying to me, These that are arrayed in white robes, WHO ARE THEY, and WHERE did they come from?  :14 And he said to me, These are they that came of the great tribulation, and they washed their robes, and made them white in the blood of the Lamb.

  What body would be raised up on the "THIRD DAY"?

 (Coincidentally, it is now the beginning of the third millennial "day" since Jesus prophesied a dual prophecy when He said "destroy THIS temple and in THREE DAYS I will raise it up". -but He spoke of the temple of His body.”)

 One body He would raise in three regular days, as a "figure", the other body He would raise up in 3 millennial days. 

That time is written of as the "first resurrection”  after the tribulation:

 Rev. 20:4  And I saw the souls of those who had been beheaded for their testimony about Jesus and for proclaiming the word of God. They had not worshiped the beast or his statue, nor accepted his mark on their foreheads or their hands. 

They all came to life again, and they reigned with Christ for a thousand years. 

:5  This is the first resurrection.  (The rest of the dead did not come back to life until the thousand years had ended.) 

6 Blessed and holy are those who share in the first resurrection. 

Is that now obvious?  
The "first resurrection" is after the tribulation, the dead are raised, which is what 1Thessalonians 4 says "the dead in Christ rise first, then we which are alive and remain to the coming of the Lord...

“Left Behind" and the Pre-trib is a deadly deception that sells well but is contrary to God’s Word.