Help For Church-Hurts (and Abuse by Clergy)

Spiritual Abuse And How to Overcome 
-rory moore

 You would think churches would be safe havens from the dog-eat-dog world around us but the truth is many are very unsafe places. (-That is unless you just go to service, toss in your offering, leave without any real interaction with the assembly, and give unquestioning loyalty to the leadership..   )

 In 24 years of "church" life, we could fill a book with not only our own personal stories, but also from a multitude of church workers and friends from other assemblies. 

In the institutionalized, church world, "Touch not mine anointed" and"obey them that have the rule over you" are two of the most mis-used verses in the Bible. They are used to create an environment where the pastor/priest/Bishop is right, even when he is wrong, and woe be to those who become a perceived threat to their authority .

Personally witnessed  Examples of church abuse:

• members marginalized, falsely accused, slandered, and falsely labeled by their pastor.
• a pastor micro-managing his leaders lives in every church service. They demand leaders sit in a certain place, dress a certain way, always smile and act happy, and controls who, where, and how they fellowship. He controls the books they read and requires strict attendance to every meeting.
• financial abuse and manipulation of scripture used to support a self-serving ministry and clergy lifestyle.
• the rampant use of fear as a tactic to control, "lord over", and dominate people in the pews.
• what you $$gave determined whether or not you got the pastors attention and/or a position in leadership.  Legalistic tithing required for leadership.
• a brother rebuked for arriving late to a prayer service when his wife was going into labor contractions.
• an adulterous pastor committing MURDER, refusing to relinquish his position and control of church business management, and members who continued to submit to him while the affair continued.
• pastors managing a church like it was a family business (which it was), with questionable and possibly illegal financial practices that were never questioned by the elders.
• pastors often getting a free pass when it came to people abuse, financial mis-management, and teaching error.
• 
  

-So often people are in unspoken fear of the leader. People are to question or challenge them scripturally even when they are in obvious error or misconduct. 

These and similar are all too often found among churches both institutional and independent. We are among many witnesses!

 Paul also wrote the Corinth church mentioning some of these abusers!
2Corinthians 11: ¹⁸ And since others boast about their human achievements, I will, too. 

¹⁹ After all, you think you are so wise, but you enjoy putting up with fools! 

²⁰ You put up with it when someone enslaves you, devours you (takes your identity in Christ), takes advantage of you, takes control of everything, and slaps you in the face. 

²¹ I’m ashamed to say that we’ve been too “weak” to do that! (Paul never took from them nor sought to “own” them as “his church”.)

This site might be meaningful to some and helpful to others caught in an abusive church:

 Spiritual abuse website and testimonies. When we came out from the church system, we found countless others who were jaded or suffered from the "deeds of the Nicolaitanes" (clergy ruling laity)..

 "The Subtle Power of Spiritual Abuse"  by  David Johnson & Jeff Van Vonderen A book for many who have been hurt.  Here are a few excerpts: 

“Unspoken Rules

“… we must never disagree with the pastor on his sermons—and if you do, you will never be trusted and never be allowed to minister in any capacity in this church.”
In this case, the unspoken rule is: Do not disagree with the church authorities —especially the pastor—or your loyalty will be suspect.
Rules like this remain unspoken, because examining them in the light of mature dialogue would instantly reveal how illogical, unhealthy and anti-Christian they are. 

... silence becomes the fortress wall of protection, shielding the pastor’s power position from scrutiny or challenge.” (p.67)

“If you speak about the problem out loud, you are the problem.” The truth is, when people talk about problems out loud, they don't cause them, they simply expose them.” (p.68)

“Too many churches communicate this kind of shaming message: ‘The problem is not that your boundaries were crossed and violated, the problem is that you talked. If you would not have made such a big deal, everything would still be fine.’

4.  Lack of Balance

“This approach to spirituality creates a system in which authority is based upon the level of education (Bible college, DD's, etc) and intellectual capacity alone, (= i.e.carnal authority –rm=)   rather than intimacy with God, obedience and sensitivity to his Spirit.” (p.70)

They tie up heavy loads, and lay them on men’s shoulders; but they themselves are unwilling to move them with so much as a finger (Matt. 23:4).     (We saw this with so many fundraisers where a pastor sent out church people to sell or market various merchandise and multi-level businesses ‘for the church’
–rm)

5. Paranoia:  “In a place where authority is grasped and legislated, not simply demonstrated, persecution sensitivity builds a case for keeping everything within the system.

 Why? Because of the evil, dangerous, or unspiritual people outside of the system who are trying to weaken or destroy ‘us’. This mentality builds a strong wall or bunker around the abusive system, isolates the abusers from scrutiny and accountability, and makes it more difficult for people to leave—because they will be outsiders, too.” (p.73)

 Ironically, Jesus and Paul both warned that one of the worst dangers to the flock was from in-house wolves (Matthew 10:16; Acts 20:29-30).” (p.74)

6. Misplaced Loyalty

“The next characteristic of spiritually abusive systems is that a misplaced sense of loyalty is fostered and even demanded. We’re not talking about loyalty to Christ, but about loyalty to a given organization, church, or leader.” (p.76) 

 “A common way this is accomplished is by setting up a system where disloyalty to or disagreement with the leadership is construed as the same thing as disobeying God. Questioning leaders is equal to questioning God. After all, the leader is the authority, and authority is always right. 

This causes people to misplace their loyalty in a leader, a church or an organization.” (p.76)  

 “There are three factors that come into play here, adding up to misplaced loyalty. First, leadership projects a ‘we alone are right’ mentality, which permeates the system. Members must remain in the system if they want to be ‘safe,’ or to stay ‘on good terms’ with God, or not to be viewed as wrong or ‘backslidden.’     (or under "spiritual covering", for which there is no scripture in the NT).

The second factor that brings about misplaced loyalty is the use of ‘scare tactics.’ For example:
God is going to withdraw His Spirit from you and your family.
God will destroy your business.
Without our protection, Satan will get your children.  You and your family will come under a curse.

 The third method of calling forth misplaced loyalty is the threat of humiliation. This is done by publicly shaming, exposing, or threatening to remove people from the group.   

 In the abusive system, it is the fear of being exposed, humiliated or removed that insures your proper allegiance, and insulates those in authority. (The pastor was protected by the group and loyalty to him was promoted)  You can be ‘exposed’ for asking too many questions, for disobeying the unspoken rules, or for disagreeing with authority.

People are made public examples in order to send a message to those who remain. Others have phone campaigns launched against them, to warn their friends and others in the group about how ‘dangerous’ they are.” (p.76,77)
(end of quote)

Given the fact that hired pastors have a paycheck and career , is there any wonder that any real or perceived threat to their "ministry" must be dealt with quickly.  In our past, a policy called "The 24 Hour Rule" in which any "discord" must to be reported within 24 hours. 

So it was, after 24 years of committed loyalty to the system at our old church we finally found ourselves in the position of marginalization and "discord sowing". - (as we mentioning and questioned the lack of scripture for money  tithing).

Thankfully, we now realize this was what God used in our lives to deliver us from bondage to a manmade system.  We left.

Someone is going to read this and begin to recognize they are caught in a church system.
Others will recognize the abusiveness of the church group they left behind.

One thing is certain, no matter what your experience may have been, Jesus taught to forgive "70 times 7".   We are tempted with the thoughts of the hurts far more than actual incidents.

 Forgiveness may be a cross to bear, but we are given no choice:
"Then said Jesus unto his disciples, If any man would come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me."

 "And forgive us our debts, as we also have forgiven our debtors.
And bring us not into temptation, but deliver us from the evil one. (whose voice do you think reminds you of those hurts?)

 
For if ye forgive men their trespasses, your heavenly Father will also forgive you. 
But if ye forgive not men their trespasses, neither will your Father forgive your trespasses."

Please,  this does not justify evil abuse of position by church leaders, but it does mean we can overcome as we “exercise” forgiveness in committing these to the Lord, “casting our care upon Him..” and “forgetting those thing which are behind we press on the prize of the high calling of God in Christ Jesus”.

In doing, we must “cast down imaginations (thoughts) and >> every thought << which exalts itself above God’s knowledge” (His knowledge as revealed in His Word).

It is hard to walk forward while dragging the past like a ball and chain on our ankle..

1Corinthians 10:5  (NASB) renders this as:
 We are destroying speculations and every lofty thing raised up against the knowledge of God, and we are taking every thought captive to the obedience of Christ..

The BIG Picture.

Where was Jesus persecuted and His disciples afterward? Was it not among His own people and the religious establishment that were counted as God’s people? Who did Saul persecute in Acts 7 and 8?

When we realize the author of our salvation suffered at the hands of the Pharisees and rulers of God’s people, and we are called to walk in His steps, we can thank Him for those things as we trust Him in all we have been through and will go through.

The NLT says this so well:
Romans 8:17 New Living Translation
17 And since we are his children, we are his heirs. In fact, together with Christ we are heirs of God’s glory. But if we are to share his glory, we must also share his suffering.

In the “Big Picture” we see God using them to perfect and refine through suffering, help us die to self, to learn and practice forgiveness.

 Therefore we are to give thanks to the Father and rejoice to be counted worthy to suffer as it is Christ working in us for our good.
And that is how we overcome spiritual abuse God’s Way.

Are You Seeking A Church?

From a post:
"I was wondering if anyone can recommend a church for me and my family to go to. I tried ----------- in town but they didn’t have a kids program yet. I would love to find a church we can go to and feel comfortable. Thanks to all."

Several kind people suggested their particular group mentioning kids programs and service times.
We heard that question countless times over the years, I always wanted them to join our church. And hopefully, they would become "committed" and "faithful" to our "vision " with their time, personal involvement, and yes, finances. As leaders, there was a shared sense of disappointment if they did not choose us and picked another group. (Can you see a bit of a competitive spirit in that?)

Another phenomenon observed was a large group of "church hoppers" drifting from church to church. We knew many of them and believed they were sincere in their belief. Over the years as my wife and I were pillars within our assembly, we saw many of them attend a church until something would happen. There was usually a reason such as church splits, personal sin, pastoral failure, a new pastor and changes, or a falling out with somebody.

Some ended up in a bland, lukewarm group that required little of them in exchange for mutual acceptance.

When we left our church after 24 years, I had no idea what to look for or where to go.
 In much prayer I asked the Lord which one He might send me to. It is odd how we never before waited on God to direct us but it was easier to rely on "the arm of flesh" than get a specific word from the Lord.

But all I heard was silence, and for several months I told Him I would go to ANY of the 35-40 churches in our city. -any of them! -I missed the fellowship, worship, and community. 

So when He would not send me to any local churches, I went anyway. I learned I should have listened to God.

So we went. It was the same old format, programs, a sermon, and mostly the same one-man show.
Only the faces, voices, programs, and seating were different. Were we just too critical? The answer is a flat "NO!" -At that point on the "potters wheel" of brokeness, we would have GLADLY joined in fellowship with any of them. 

Going alone to visit, week after week, all I wanted was GOD. It did not matter to me what the name was, where they met, or who went there, all I cared about was being in the Presence of God.

I even went to a small all-black church, where I was the only visitor and the only white person there. Another out of town Pentecostal church had some very good singing and worship which we enjoyed and we swallowed hard returning a few times in an effort to "connect" to God and man, within the walls of a church. 

We closed our eyes, not looking at the musicians and singers on the stage-platform, and focused on Jesus. We really tried.  That nagging verse "DO NOT FORSAKE THE ASSEMBLING OF YOURSELVES TOGETHER AS IS THE MANNER OF SOME...." always lurked in mind. 

      "This also is church"

Before we had resigned our “home church”, on a Sunday afternoon I stopped at the local AMVETS donation center. A man I had known since childhood worked there and we had a conversation about God and the Bible. In doing so, The Lord revealed to me something about his life and as we sat in my truck in front of his workplace, I asked if I could pray for him.

As we prayed, the wonderful presence of the Lord absolutely filled the cab of that truck; I knew it, he knew it, the truck even knew it.  After our prayer, he returned to work and as I was driving home, the Lord spoke very clearly to me: "This also is church".

 My reaction was WHAT does that mean?  -My "church" paradigm was still in the box, under a pastor.

The fact that I had just assembled with someone in prayer according to what Jesus said in Matthew 18:20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them, was shaking my view of what "church" means.

For months afterwards, I kept thinking about what God had spoken to me that day. "This also is church".  (At that time, I had no idea we would be leaving our assembly. God had planted a seed and as I was now reading the Bible studiously, the thought of what "church" actually is, according to God, slowly began to change. So many things had been taken for granted, over-looked, and most of all, never examined in light of serious study of scripture.

I began to consider "church" outside the box. It began to dawn on me there was a great number of Christians in our community who did not set foot in the local churches. I understood there were others outside the walls of the traditional church institutions. I thought , "how could we get them into ours" but the Lord quickly corrected me with "bring them in to WHAT?"

After our church resignation Sept. 29, 2004, and our failed experiments in "church shopping", we realized we were in uncharted territory and away from the comforts of manmade security.

Some wonderful things happened, our faith in GOD actually began to grow and we even experienced several healing miracles. The scriptures became fresh and exciting as the Lord became our guide and teacher, just like He promised in John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.  Even the Old Testament made more sense as we understood what the prophets were saying to the church in OUR day.

And again, John 7:17, If any man will do his will, he shall know of the doctrine, whether it be of God, or whether I speak of myself.

The Lord began to show us scripture we never heard taught in church, and our need to walk in them.

We understood how Jesus could say in John 7:16, "Jesus answered them, and said, My doctrine is not mine, but his that sent me." And the truth of what John wrote in 1John 2:27 " But the anointing which ye have received of him abides in you, and ye need not that any man teach you: but as the same anointing teaches you of all things, and is truth, and is no lie, and even as it hath taught you, ye shall abide in him."

We also saw the need for personal repentance of much manmade "leaven" that had been a part of our Christianity.  There was far more to repent of than we ever could imagine.

These were some of the great blessings God has given us. And frankly, we have been amazed at some of the people and means God has used in our lives to keep us assembled and connected to both Him and others in the body of Christ.

We point you to read the Bible prayerfully for yourself and ask God to reveal to you "Which CHURCH are you looking for"?

Are you looking for a church where Jesus is the Head?

Are you looking for a church that believes the Bible is God's Word, our authority, and are you willing to pay the price of obedience?

Is truth important to you? Are you willing to follow the Lamb outside the camp?

Have you ever studied the New Testament for how and where people gathered? and what happened when they did? Search the book of Acts, it is there many times.

Most people go to a "church" hoping to find the way to God. Some leave a church in their search to find God. What counts most is that we are each led by Him and hear Him direct our path. We hope you find Him too.

Thoughts on The man of God

Thoughts on The man of God

What does a man of God look like? 

Is he a someone who declares himself to be sent from God and sports a Title, degree, and an ordination certificate? Is he a leader that declares himself to be God's anointed? Is he on TV, radio, or behind a pulpit?  Is he famous, rich, well known, popular, wears a backwards collar or priest's shirt? Is he a man of God because dozens, hundreds, even thousands follow his ministry?

What a man of God looks like is not what people think. Very few will recognize him. Most are all too familiar with imitation.

What ever ministerial gift a man or woman claims, we will attempt to give a profile of what the genuine man of God is and does. He will be the anointed of God in a restored and resurrected ministry that looks like the one in Acts. God will do this in our midst, but the majority will not recognize him-as history repeats.

He is dead. Not physically, but he died or is dying to self. He knows self is a hindrance to Christ.
Mat 10:39   He that finds his life shall lose it; and he that loses his life for my sake shall find it.
Mat 16:25   For whoever would save his life shall lose it: and whosoever shall lose his life for my sake shall find it.

He loves God and seeks to put God first, exalting Jesus.
He loves people, including his enemies and those that speak against him when he seeks to do good for them.
He speaks *evil of no man. (*slander, malice, to hurt)

He sees little value in the latest movie, sports, worldly music or politics.
He's in the world not of it.  John 17:16
He does not take pleasure in worldly matters other than being responsible and law abiding.

He prays. Often, and in private.
His prayers are effective.
He is not afraid of demons and has cast them out.
He is mature in the faith and believes what God says.
He prays for people and many receive healing. 

His words bring life, not traditions.

He seeks FOR God's sheep, not FROM them.
He does not self promote his name, face, or ministry. He is dead to that.
He builds God's kingdom, not his own.
He does not look to God's people for money or praise. John 5:41 I receive not glory from men.

He does not want people's money or to be honored by them. Luke 6:26 Woe unto you, when all men shall speak well of you! for in the same manner did their fathers to the false prophets.

He does not care about buildings. He builds up people.
He points people to the Jesus of Scripture, not the jesus of his tradition, denomination, "doctrinal statement", "creed", or even what he thinks.
He does not "justify himself" or make excuses when he is wrong.

He does not have a "church manual", "bylaws", rules, or membership list.

He seeks to make people followers and disciples of Jesus, not himself.
He will answer and reason, but not argue.

He seeks to be a "doer of the Word" and not a talker about the Word.
His loyalty is to God, not a country, political party, nor a denomination.
He does not seek fame, a crowd of followers, or popularity.
He seeks and desires "holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord." -and not false external holiness

He speaks the truth. He speaks scripture a LOT. -with wisdom and understanding from God, not man.
God's Word flows out of him, "if any speak, let him speak as an oracle of God"
God confirms his words. So do Scriptural signs and wonders,"these signs shall follow them that believe..."
He speaks the truth in love.
He reproves, rebukes, and exhorts with all long-suffering and doctrine.

He studies God's Word diligently and can "rightly divide" the Word of truth. 2Timothty 2:15 He repents when God shows him his error.

He does not justify the wicked.
He won't tell a person lost in sin that they are saved.
He recognizes the Spirit of God in others.

He does not exchange his ministry for a paycheck, perks, or special privileges. God provides for him.
He knows how to live by faith and never begs.
He goes to God for his needs, not the church.
He knows God will supply his every need. Phil 4:19
He receives freely, he gives freely. Mat. 10:8
He gives in private where God sees, not in public where men see. Mat. 6:4
He loves God, not mammon. Mat. 6:24
He remembers the poor. Gal. 2:10

He does not have extravagant "fundraisers".

He has humility, not pride. Self is decreasing.
He humbles himself to the Word, even when it hurts.
He does not defend himself, he defends God's sheep.
He has suffered and suffers rejection.
He is disliked by the establishment religious leadership.

He forgives them that reject him, dishonor him, and despise him.
He still loves them.

He is meek, not flashy.
He is sober, not trite.
He never tells a risque joke.
He does not crave attention or feed on the attention of a crowd.
He is dead or on the path of dying to self.

He does not use gimmicks, manipulation, or flaunt his authority.
He speaks with God's authority because he speaks God's Words.

He knows what it is and hates the deeds and error of the Nicolaitanes and he has overcome them.

He is the head of his home in word and deed, and provides for them.
His neighbors, co-workers, and relatives know he is a Christian.
He has testified to all of them.

He knows personally who and what Jezebel is, and who and what Balaam is, and he has overcome their ministries in the church.

He resists the devil. James 4:7
He appears weak, but he is strong. 2Cor 12:10 Wherefore I take pleasure in weaknesses, in injuries, in necessities, in persecutions, in distresses, for Christ's sake: for when I am weak, then am I strong.
He overcomes temptation consistently. He is dead.

He speaks grace and gives grace, he speaks of sin and cannot stay silent in the face of it.
He comes in the nature, character, and authority of Jesus. The Name above every name, not his own.
He is not impressed by the rich, famous, or powerful whether they call themselves Christian or not.

He is a servant, not a king or a hireling. 
He and his family are not royalty.
He does what Jesus said a disciple would do. Mark 16:16-20
He has renounced ownership of 100% not just 10%. Luke 14:33.

He is not in competition with other ministries, nor does he compare himself to them.
He follows God's Word, not somebody's book, ministry organizational Statement, or program for growth.
Drink waters out of thine own cistern, And running waters out of thine own well.
Those who know the Lord will love him.
Those who love their religion will loathe him.

He may be an apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor or teacher, but he won't have a business card or certificate to prove it. God will prove him. He may be someone who quietly goes about the work of the ministry, he is not a showman. Period. 

If a man is sent from God, he will do and say what God said.

rory moore

Easter Lays An Egg

It is the CHURCH That Needs a Resurrection One of the reasons we left our church was the pagan aspects of a"Christian" holiday encased in the trappings of pagan fertility rites and sun worship.  We actually have no scripture to observe the annual fulfillment of the Passover or carry on the paganized version of the event.  We do not have a Hebrew calendar nor were we told to have one in the New Testament.  Someday the Lord will fix our paganized calendar, but until then, many of us will simply do as Paul wrote to the church: "One man esteems one day above another: another esteems every day alike". For us, the quote from Christ "It is finished." means no more bunnies, eggs, sunrise services, easter baskets, chocolate eggs, egg-hunts, or "Happy Easter" greetings. (“Easter” is the Romanized form of the Babylonian pagan goddess “Ishtar”). Furthermore, we do not observe a "Good Friday" crucifixtion followed by THREE DAYS and THREE NIGHTS in the earth, only to come out of the grave 1.5 days later on Sunday. Have you ever thought of that? Matthew 12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. -hmm, that is what Jesus said.  Have you ever counted the days?  From Friday 3pm +24, 'till Saturday 3pm = 1 day. + to Sunday  3pm= 2 days, + to Monday 3pm = 3days.   If He went into the grave around 6 or 7 the 3 days creep toward Tuesday morn. So we do a little 3rd grade math and find the three days that began late on Friday now puts the women at the empty tomb early on Tuesday! -whoops.    If Jesus was crucified Friday and a day was 24 hours like it has been for a long time, then for Jesus to be in the earth "3 days and 3 nights", either He resurrected on Monday night late, early Tuesday,  or the church has it way wrong again. But maybe He was crucified on WEDNESDAY. Then He can resurrect by the first day of the week, which is our Sunday, like the Bible says in Mark 16:9 Now when Jesus was risen early the first day of the week. A risen Christ? YES! A correct calendar date for it? Maybe. What the scripture says about it? ABSOLUTELY! But the bunnies, eggs, sunrise worship, and "FUN" practices that have been passed down from Babel? -NOT! Isn't it odd there is no mention in the Book of Acts or the epistles of Christians observing a holiday called "Easter"? Oh yes, for a time the Jewish disciples observed Passover but that observance was not mentioned as a practice for the gentile Christians to observe.  The Jewish observance of the Passover bore zero resemblance to the pagans around them who worshipped Ishtar, Queen of Heaven, and her son, Tammuz, the resurrected false son of God.   Hot "T" Buns anyone?  |The "t" stands for "Tammuz"  Ezekiel 8:14 Then he brought me to the door of the gate of Jehovah's house which was toward the north; and behold, there sat the women weeping forTammuz. Yes, right there in front of God's Temple, a celebration for Mr. T. I am not trying to debate or change anyone's observance one way or the other, but by the time we walked out of church, we were fed up with the worldliness of our holidays and the lack of real evidence in the church around us of the resurrection.  Today it is the church around us that needs resurrection more than the observance of the historical commemoration-celebration of what Christ did 2,000 years ago. Be assured, the holiday called "Easter" you grew up with is not the one we read of in scripture.   And finally, this link has a rundown of where "Easter" actually came from, right down to the "cross my heart" with a "T" for Tammuz from good 'ol Babylon.. Now, about that "sun rise" service: ezek. 8: 5 Then said he unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? thou shalt again see yet greater abominations than these. 16 And he brought me into the inner court of the Lord’s house; and behold, at the door of the temple of the LORD, between the porch and the altar, were about five and twenty men, with their backs toward the temple of the LORD, and their faces toward the east; and they were worshipping the sun toward the east. 17 Then he said unto me, Hast thou seen this, O son of man? Is it a light thing to the house of Judah that they commit the abominations which they commit here? for they have filled the land with violence, and have turned again to provoke me to anger: and, lo, they put the branch to their nose. "Now we go to the tomb on the first day of the week, the resurrection morning the women came at early dawn but Jesus had already risen.  No mention of the women facing to the east and paying homage to the Sun as it rose in the eastern sky, no mention of bringing colored eggs, no rabbits were brought to sacrifice to the goddess of fertility.   Of course, the women coming to the tomb of Jesus had nothing to do with the present day celebration of Easter or Easter Sunrise Service.  The reason was that as a festive celebration to observe the resurrection of Christ, the event was unknown!  Those who are afraid of the truth should read no further!  For the truth is that Easter is pagan!" For more info: Easter  Where the Easter "stuff" came from... The Harlot Church and the connection to sun worship  Joseph Herrin Apostles of the Sun  understanding where the pagans and the church became one.

Nephilum, Giants, Fallen Angels, and Truth (updated, revised)

revised and updated version
this is an abbreviated version for a forth-coming book with even more proofs and why
"we simply cannot make scripture say what it does not say"
-rory moore

This is the condensed version of my book on the same subject.

I wrote an article or two from what I saw written in scripture, and also engaged in numerous debates and discussions, I eventually became convinced what appeared to be the majority view was not what I read in scripture.

I also noticed a pattern.  The angels/ sons of God/ aliens/ nephilim and some of the UFO crowd all spoke the same thing, made the same assumptions, added the same ideas and often made the scriptures say what they do not say in order to paint a picture of imagination-fired plausibility connecting human genealogy to “extra-terrestrials” or half-human hybrids.  I want to repeat this phrase for emphasis: 

“they often made the scriptures say what they do not say”. 

And that my friends, is where a “strong delusion” sets in no matter what the subject is about.

Genesis 6,

1   And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the ground,  and daughters  were born unto them,
 2  that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair;  and they took them wives of all that they chose.

3   And The LORD said, My spirit shall not strive with man forever, for that he also is flesh:  yet shall his days be a hundred and twenty years.
4 The *Nephilim were in the earth in those days,  and also after that, when the sons of God came unto the daughters of men,  and they bare children to them: the same were the mighty men that were of old, the men of renown.

          (*  H5307; properly, a feller,  a bully or tyrant: - giant.)
5   The LORD saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth

Let’s use the sword of the Spirit, and see if we can prove the truth for a commonly accepted doctrine.   This doctrine leads either to or from the path of scripture into regions of thinking that have us chasing pre-Adamic creation, alien invasions, Adam having two wives, and all sorts of fanciful, unprofitable “learning”.

There are two critical points to test:
1. Does scripture say angels married human wives?
2. Does scripture define “sons of God” as angels or men?

The trouble usually  begins with that phrase in Genesis 6:4, “sons of God”.

WHO are those  “sons of God”? Were they angels or were they men?

Let’s test this:

1. Jesus spoke of men who cannot marry in the resurrection: Matthew. 22:

  29)  Jesus said to them, You err, not knowing the scriptures, nor the power of God.

  30) For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage,  but are as angels in heaven.

-Men who achieve the resurrection do not marry, have sexual union, or make babies, because they “are as angels in heaven”.

- But is it written anywhere that angels in heaven married other angels or humans?

- Are angels ever directly named “sons of God”?

Again,  Jesus spoke of angels and sons of God in Luke 20

   34)  and Jesus said unto them, The sons of this world marry, and are given in marriage:

   35)   but they that are accounted worthy to attain to that world,  and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
   36)   for neither can they die any more: as they are *equal to the angels;
            and are sons of God,  being sons of the resurrection.

*equal to the angels”: G2465 ἰσάγγελος is aggelos “ like an angel, that is, angelic:
- equal unto the angels.”

NOTICE: ==> Jesus said men are sons of God because they were sons of God by the resurrection.

Are *any* angels ever called "sons of God by the resurrection"?  The honest answer is NO.

From what Jesus said above, the Old Testament saints who died in faith, are “equal to angels”,  and who are  "not given in marriage”, as “angels in heaven” are likewise not married,  are called  “sons of God” by Jesus, before His resurrection!

Point: In this “sons of God” passage, angels were not included as sons of God by the resurrection even though men are, and men would be as “equal to the angels”. (equal means "like" or as)

In Genesis 6:2 after men multiplied, it says: that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair; and they took them wives of all that they chose.

But no angels are ever spoken of as married to human wives.

Read Jesus' words above very carefully.

Sons of God Error correction #2:

In the Hebrew text, “angels”  are not even mentioned specifically until first mention Genesis 16:7

“And the angel of The LORD found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness”

Let’s look at the Hebrew word for “angel”.   It is “malak”.
 (def.: messenger, representative, angel,  the theophanic angel)

Let’s look at the Hebrew word for “sons”.   It is  “ben” or “bane”.

(son, grandson,  member of a group  son, male child, grandson ,  children (pl. - male and female)  youth, young men (pl.)young (of animals)  sons (as characterization, i.e. sons of injustice [for un- righteous men]or sons of God [for angels]  people (of a nation) (pl.)  of lifeless things, i.e. sparks, stars, arrows)

Yet Jesus said angels do not marry, which was only stated as the union of man and women.

Could these “sons of God” be angels because “ben” has a minor inclusion “sons of God for angels” in the definition?

4,842 times “ben” was used in the Old Testament, but ZERO times translated as “angels” (ASV) and 0 for 4,906 in the KJV. Without adding “angels” into any text, not one verse expressly, directly, or specifically speaks of “angels” as sons of God, but it does say that of men.

Therefore the Hebrew language testifies against “sons of God” as  angels.

Next we find in Job the phrase “sons of God” used again.

Job 1:6  Now it came to pass on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves

              before the LORD, that Satan also came among them.

      2:1  again it came to pass on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves

              before the Lord, that Satan came also among them to present himself before.

    38:7  when the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?

 -Again there is no specific identification that "sons ("ben") of God" were angels (malak).

( “morning stars” can be shown as a metaphor for saints of God and children of Abraham, but we prefer not to insert any metaphor or assumption into the text here.

Now for New Testament "the sons of God" references:

Luke 20:34    Jesus said unto them, The sons of this world marry, and are given in marriage:

Luke 20:36    for neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels;
 and ARE sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

Now that passage could end the debate, but there are more “sons of God” identified explicitly, directly, and are expressly designated:

Galatians 3:26  For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 1:5   having fore-ordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ...

1Jn 3:2 beloved, now are we the sons of God, and it doth not yet appear what we shall be: but we know that, when he shall appear, we shall be LIKE him; for we shall see him as he is.

What we see and do not see in the above scriptures:

-Are any angels, fallen or otherwise directly called “sons of God?" -NO!

-Are men, “they that are accounted worthy”  called “sons of God” -YES!

-Are Old Testament saints who were “they of faith”, and “sons of Abraham”,  also “sons of the resurrection” and “accounted worthy” ? -YES!

Are the same “sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus” called  “sons of God”? -YES!

Did Abraham have faith and look for Jesus? -YES!

Jesus said “Abraham saw my day and rejoiced”. John 8:56

Now we have two witnesses in Jesus Christ and Witness Paul telling us who the “sons of God” really are.

If that were not enough, we see "angels" (aggelos) used 176 times in the New Testament and not one single time are they referred to as "sons" or "sons of God". 

("Aggelos", Gr, #32, "angel(s), messenger(s).

Angelic Sons of God Error Corrected, reason number 3:

In scripture, the Word instructs us that a teaching and truth are built “line upon line, line upon line”.

Furthermore, scripture tells us that “in the mouth of two or three witnesses let every word be established”.

The premise that fallen-angels-sons-of-God, were able to make babies in marriage with human women have the following number of verses to additionally witness that theory:

---0---

That is correct, there are no verses in either the Old or New Testaments pointing to women making babies with fallen angels.  

Only by supposition and assumption (interpolation, i.e. that is making scripture say what it does not say) is the idea believed.

Jesus did not mention any “return of the nephilum” as an end time warning about the “days of Noah”??  -When he gave signs to watch out for, neither Jesus or Paul wrote such nonsense when warning of “the last days” or end times.

The "signs" most warned about?  -"deceivers" "false teachers" "seducing spirits" and "demon doctrines".

There is a place where Jesus said the devil himself could father children.

Jesus told the Jews and pharisees in  John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil,  and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning,  and stands not in the truth, because there is no truth in him.

Did the fallen arch angel Lucifer-devil have sex with the mothers of the pharisees?

Jesus clearly said they were of their father, the devil.
HOW did the devil “father” the pharisees? -did the devil have sexual relations with Israelite women and how could the devil father human children?

Do you think if the devil could have physical sex to impregnate women, make giants and “nephillum”, that he would have stayed pretty busy making as many as possible all through history?

Here is what Jesus said about "good seed" and "tares" who are of bad seed.

Matthew 13:38 and the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one

How did tares become "SONS of the evil one"?

Are we are supposed to accept that a one-night stand back there in Genesis 6 by sexy fallen angels, that for some odd reason never again happened in scripture, nor was spoken of as such, nor warned about, is  somehow fit for Christian doctrinal consumption?

No friends, scripture is not of private interpretation.

It is error to isolate one passage and imply a doctrinal precept built around one verse, with no corroborating scripture testimony.

Sons Of God Error Corrected Reason 4:

God created “seed” and set into motion a law that said seed would reproduce “after like kind”.

An apple seed brings forth an apple tree. A cows “seed” brings forth calves.
Angels cannot reproduce with humans. Angels are called “ministering spirits”, and “a spirit has not flesh and bone” as Jesus said, even though angels have appeared in flesh all through scripture.

Point:  we cannot prove angels have bones, blood, or the capacity for sexual reproduction, any or all of which are needed to affirm the theory of angels marrying human women and making babies who became giants.

Seed reproduces kind, and the only seed a seducing spirit can sow is spiritual seed via words, i.e. “doctrines of demons” which are errors and lies.

That was the method of the devil by which deceived Eve in the garden, a demon doctrine deceived her and it was spiritual words that she believed.  A lie is a spiritual seed.

24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind, cattle,  and creeping things, and beasts of the earth after their kind: and it was so.

25  And God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind,  and everything that crept upon the ground after its kind: ...

There are ZERO scriptures stating that angels (also called spirits) can reproduce flesh.
That which is begotten of the flesh is flesh, that which is of the Spirit is spirit". –John 3:6

WARNINGS:

    1Tim 1:3)  As I exhorted thee to tarry at Ephesus, when I was going into Macedonia,  that you might charge certain men not to teach a different doctrine,
    4)   neither to give heed to fables and endless genealogies,  which minister questionings
-You might think the angels are sons of God marrying human women doctrine was in Paul’s mind when he wrote that passage about “endless genealogies” and “which minister questionings” which is so illustrated by emails and arguments on this subject.

"Fables"  is “muthos”, which is a tale, that is, fiction, (myth).

There are warnings about giving heed to “seducing spirits” and doctrines of demons.

“Seducing spirits” are not about sex with human women, it is their “doctrines” that spiritually impregnate the “sons of God”.

And that is why Jesus told them they were of their father the devil.

Today,  myth and fable are mainstream, and sell well.
yes, extra-Biblical books are referenced in scripture itself.  But we are forbidden to establish doctrine apart from scripture, and without additional witness in scripture itself.

There is no scripture witness from scripture of demons making human babies unless you make assumption that scripture says what it does not say.

Let's chain ourselves to what is written and not depart.

Sons Of God Error Corrected Reason 5:

No scriptures in the New Testament, say anything remotely close to the fallen angels making babies with humans” error, it is not stated as such in Jude nor in 2peter 2.

-Are fallen angels ever called “sons of God” in the New Testament?   NO!

-Does the New Testament even mention angels and sonship?   YES!

- ‎"For unto which of the angels said he at any time,  You are my Son,  this day have I begotten thee? -Heb 1:5

Those holding the fallen angels are “sons of God” in Genesis 6 and Job, find themselves directly contradicting God saying to which of his angels at any time did He say “thou art My son”!

Angels are expressly called "spirits".

Heb. 1:13   But of which of the angels hath he said at any time, Sit thou on my right hand,

                    Till I make thine enemies the footstool of thy feet?

          14)    Are they not all ministering spirits.

Since angels are spirit-beings:
 Can a fallen angel produce human or angelic sperm in order to impregnate a human woman?

Not according to Jesus:

John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.

"flesh":  The flesh, denotes human nature and the physical substance of human kind.

"spirit": A spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter,  and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting.

A spirit can inhabit a body (as satan entered into Judas), a spirit can appear as a man, but never is a spirit given capability to produce human seed.

The ONLY seed an evil fallen angel can sow is a lie.

Just because angels materialized into human form and ate food does not mean mean they had every human capability including reproduction. 

The scripture does not state the attribute that  angels can  make human “seed”, and cross breed, as seed begets "kind" after its’ own "kind".

Matthew 13:38 and the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom;  and the tares are the sons of the evil one”.  That's right, sons of the "evil one" are "tares" because they receive the "seed" of the devil, i.e. lies.

Were "sons of Belial" angels or human?

1 Samuel 2:12  Now the sons of Eli were sons of Belial; they knew not the LORD.

1 Samuel 10:27 But the children of Belial said, How shall this man save us?

Deuteronomy 13:13 Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods…

Judges 19:22           Now as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain sons of Belial, ..and spoke to the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came into thine house, that we may know him.

We ask, if sons of God are fallen angels, and both men and fallen angels are of their father the devil, then what made both "kind" sons of the devil? -was it physical procreation or was it spiritual by following a lie and rebellion?

Sons Of God Error Corrected Reason 6:

Warning, fables-fables-fables

Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures Jesus said in the very passage that He spoke concerning angels, men, and sons of God.

 Some folks believe the Book of Enoch is scripture. However if the Book of Enoch is not verifiable scripture, it is not to be included as a witness to a doctrine and Jesus did not refer to it or quote from it.
Paul did not quote from it, Jude says " (14)  And to these also Enoch, the seventh from Adam, prophesied, saying, Behold, the Lord came with ten thousands of his holy ones.

Did you note that the mention of Enoch’s prophesy is not prefaced “it is written…”?
The prophecy is true because it is given by the Holy Spirit and is written in Jude as a witness, but nowhere do we have confirmation from anyone that “The Book of Enoch” is scripture and it would be witnessed somewhere in scripture if it were.

Quoting a prophesy from Enoch is no different as other words are quoted from many other prophets. The "Book of Enoch" and the writings of Enoch are nowhere validated as scripture, by the scripture.

Contrast with the dozens of entire verses quoted from the prophet named Moses found in the New Testament.
Isaiah and Daniel are repeatedly quoted in the New Testament.
Daniel is quoted in the New Testament.

Others like Enoch also prophesied likewise:

" And there was also a man that prophesied in the name of Jehovah, Uriah " -Jer. 26:20

".. sons of Asaph, ... who prophesied after the order of the king." 1Chron 25:2

"Of  the sons of Jeduthun: Gedaliah, and Zeri, and Jeshaiah, Hashabiah, and Mattithiah, six, under the hands of their father Jeduthun with the harp, who prophesied in giving thanks and praising Jehovah." 1Chron 25:3

So we see that even though others "prophesied" as Enoch did, the "Book of Enoch" is not given as scripture but a prophesy by Enoch is witnessed by scripture...

1.  1Timothy 1:4 neither to give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questionings, rather than a dispensation of God which is in faith; so do I now.

2.   2Timothy 4:4 and will turn away their ears from the truth, and turn aside unto fables.

3.  Titus 1:14 not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men who turn away from the truth.
    (bad fruit turns God's people away from scripture)

4.  2Peter 1:16 For we did not follow *cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord 

Jesus Christ… ( *means to continue in PLAUSIBLE ERROR…)

Once the unvarnished truth is accepted,  the doctrine of hormone-driven sexy angels marrying or sexually molesting women and making babies who become giants is shown to be absurd and ridiculous.

Because doctrine is not to be established by one verse, one context, or assuming scripture means what it does not say. True doctrine is established "line upon line..." with mutually supporting scripture.

I submit to you, the reader, that no scripture states that angels are "sons of God", but scriptures do say that men are called "sons of God'.

I submit that in no other passage of scripture is there reference to, or a declaration of angelic spirits having sexual relations with human women and making babies.

I submit to you that God repeats history and we can demonstrate that in the scripture. But I cannot find any repetition of God repeating the alleged "sons of God-fallen angel" theory of them making babies with humans they married.
I submit that Jesus never said or alluded to that in the season of His return, as in the days of Noah, that there would be "a return of the nephilum".

In closing, there are scriptures that cannot lie, but men can be deceived into lying about them. 

Read them with care and decide for yourself.

...   the nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that, when the sons of God came unto the daughters of men,

...   neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection

...   For unto which of the angels said he at any time,  Thou art my son ?

*** Further scripture notes on “Sons of God”:

If "sons" of God means or included "angels", then there is not a single evidence of that in these passages which specifically and expressly mention "sons" of God:

Exodus 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son

Deut 32:19          And the Lord saw it, and abhorred them, Because of the provocation of his sons and his daughters

John 1:12     But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God even to them that believe on his name:

1Chron 17:13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him

1 Chron 22:10 He shall build an house for my name; and he shall be my son, and I will be his father

Hosea 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.

Rev  21:7 He that overcomes shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.

Did OT saints “overcome?

 Did they believe God?

 Did they “see from afar” the promises of God in Christ?

Were they sons of God by the resurrection?

Isaiah 43:6 I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the ends of the earth;

Isaiah 45:11 Thus says the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker, Ask me of things to come concerning my sons,  and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.

2Cor. 6:18 And will be a Father to you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, said the Lord Almighty.

Hebrews 11 tells us who the “sons of God by FAITH in Christ Jesus” were:

4 By faith Abel 5 By faith Enoch 7 By faith Noah,8 By faith Abraham

13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them and greeted them  from afar

24  By faith Moses... 26  accounting the reproach of Christ greater riches

 13) These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth

Galatians 3:26 For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.

Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.

Luke 20:36 for neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels;  and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.

Not once are angels “sons” in any of those passages..

Genesis 3:15 and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed: he shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.

Should we accept that both the woman and the serpent have "seed", and that the serpent was the devil,

both are prophesied to have "seed", in Hebrew meaning ones posterity.

Since both would have a "posterity", did the devil continue to have human children through sexual reproduction? -or would his children be those that received the same lie, and have the same nature as the serpent?? -just as the pharisees who were called children of the devil.

-The woman's "seed" is recognized as Jesus who would come to bruise the "head" of satan.

Luke 6:35             But love your enemies, and do them good, and lend, never despairing; and your reward shall be great, and you shall be sons of the Most High

..............

NONE of the angels mentioned in scripture such as Michael and Gabriel, are ever specifically called "sons of God", not in any passage anywhere in the entire Bible!!

Can you find non-human "sons of God here?

Deuteronomy 32:19 And The LORD saw it, … Because of the provocation of his sons and his daughters.

Judges 5:5
And the children of Israel dwelt among the Canaanites, the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the Hivites, and the Jebusites:
( the children of Israel WERE called “sons of God”)

6 and they (the sons of God,-Israel)  took their daughters (of pagan men) to be their wives, (as married to the Israeli sons of God)   and gave their own daughters (the children of Israel)  to their sons  (of men) and served their gods.

Do these include angels as sons of God?

Isaiah 43:6  I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back; bring my sons from far, and my daughters from the end of the earth

2 Corinthians 6:18  And I will be to you a Father, And you shall be to me sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.

Since no angels are ever directly called “sons of God”, and since no scripture witnesses that angels can  or did marry human women and make babies, we categorically reject this teaching and pray the Lord will open the eyes of those who are driven to contend for it.

Why is there no commandment in the word of God for man not to cohabitate with angels?

When God warned against intermarriage with parents and family members in the law, and severely warned of adulterous marriages, and warned against sex with animals, and warned against homosexual sex, and warned about marriage with unbelievers, and warned against unmarried sexual relations, He did not give warning against marriage or sex with fallen angels. There is*nothing* in the New Testament in regard to angels making babies with humans but there is repeated warnings regarding immorality and fornication among humans.

We simply cannot “go beyond that which is written” and try to make the scripture say what it does not say, even if the arguments seem plausible.

Copyright 2014 by Rory Moore