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A place to help people to find understanding why church tradition and experience is often quite different from the simplicity of the New Testament. Is the phrase "go to church" ever stated in scripture? What about Titles and building-centered assembly? What is a 501c3 church? These are examples of practices needing examination and we hope will provoke thought and prayer among those the Lord is stirring and calling to a deeper consecration, and we want to encourage you to "hear ye HIM".
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Friday, January 20, 2012
How To Plant an American Church
Tuesday, January 10, 2012
Sons of God, Nephilum, Giants, and Truth
please see the updated version and our soon to be released book on this topic.
Genesis 6,
1 And it came to pass, when men began to multiply on the face of the ground,
and daughters were born unto them,
2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair;
and they took them wives of all that they chose.
3 And Jehovah said, My spirit shall not strive with man forever, for that he also is flesh:
yet shall his days be a hundred and twenty years.
4 The *Nephilim were in the earth in those days,
and also after that, when the sons of God
came unto the daughters of men,
and they bare children to them: the same were the mighty men that were of old,
the men of renown.
(* H5307; properly, a feller, a bully or tyrant: - giant.)
5 And Jehovah saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth
Now let’s use the sword of the Spirit, and see if we can prove down a commonly accepted doctrine. This doctrine leads balanced people from the path of scripture into regions of thinking that have them chasing pre-Adamic creation, alien invasions, Adam having two wives, and all sorts of fanciful, unprofitable “learning”.
2 that the sons of God saw the daughters of men that they were fair;
and they took them wives of all that they chose.
3 And Jehovah said, My spirit shall not strive with man forever, for that he also is flesh:
yet shall his days be a hundred and twenty years.
4 The *Nephilim were in the earth in those days,
and also after that, when the sons of God
came unto the daughters of men,
and they bare children to them: the same were the mighty men that were of old,
the men of renown.
(* H5307; properly, a feller, a bully or tyrant: - giant.)
5 And Jehovah saw that the wickedness of man was great in the earth
Now let’s use the sword of the Spirit, and see if we can prove down a commonly accepted doctrine. This doctrine leads balanced people from the path of scripture into regions of thinking that have them chasing pre-Adamic creation, alien invasions, Adam having two wives, and all sorts of fanciful, unprofitable “learning”.
The trouble starts with that phrase in Genesis 6:4, “sons of God”.
WHO are the alleged “sons of God”? Were they angels or were they men?
Let’s test this:
1. We know Jesus said angels cannot marry in Matthew. 22:
29) but Jesus answered and said unto them, Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures,
nor the power of God.
30) For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage,
but are as angels in heaven.
-Men who achieve the resurrection do not marry, have sexual union, or make babies,
because they “are as angels in heaven”.
Angels in heaven do not marry or reported to make babies.
Are angels ever directly named “sons of God”?
Jesus spoke of angels and sons of God in Luke 20
34) and Jesus said unto them, The sons of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
35) but they that are accounted worthy to attain to that world,
and the resurrection from the dead,
neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36) for neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels;
and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
and the resurrection from the dead,
neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36) for neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels;
and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Jesus said men are sons of God because they were sons of God by the resurrection.
Are *any* angels called "sons of God by the resurrection"?
Are *any* angels called "sons of God by the resurrection"?
Those Old Testament saints, who died in faith, are “equal to angels”, and who are "not given in marriage”, as the “angels in heaven” are likewise not married, are called “sons of God” by Jesus, before His resurrection!
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Sons of God Error correction #2:
In the Hebrew, “angels” are not even mentioned specifically until Genesis 16:7
“And the angel of Jehovah found her by a fountain of water in the wilderness”
Now Let’s look at the Hebrew word for “angel”.
It is “malak”: messenger, representative, angel, the theophanic angel)
Let’s look at the Hebrew word for “sons”. It is “ben” or “bane”.
(son, grandson, member of a group son, male child
grandson , children (pl. - male and female) youth, young men (pl.)
young (of animals) sons (as characterization, i.e. sons of injustice [for un- righteous men]
or sons of God [for angels] people (of a nation) (pl.) of lifeless things, i.e. sparks, stars, arrows)
Jesus said angels do not marry, which is a union of man and women.
Let’s look at the Hebrew word for “sons”. It is “ben” or “bane”.
(son, grandson, member of a group son, male child
grandson , children (pl. - male and female) youth, young men (pl.)
young (of animals) sons (as characterization, i.e. sons of injustice [for un- righteous men]
or sons of God [for angels] people (of a nation) (pl.) of lifeless things, i.e. sparks, stars, arrows)
Jesus said angels do not marry, which is a union of man and women.
Could these “sons of God” be angels because “ben” has a minor inclusion “sons of God for angels” in the definition?
4,842 times “ben” was used in the Old Testament, and ZERO times translated as “angels” (ASV) and 0 for 4,906 in the KJV.
Therefore the Hebrew language testifies against “sons of God” as fallen angels.
4,842 times “ben” was used in the Old Testament, and ZERO times translated as “angels” (ASV) and 0 for 4,906 in the KJV.
Therefore the Hebrew language testifies against “sons of God” as fallen angels.
Next we find in Job the phrase “sons of God” used again.
Job 1:6 Now it came to pass on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves
before Jehovah, that Satan also came among them.
2:1 again it came to pass on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves
before Jehovah, that Satan came also among them to present himself before Jehovah.
38:7 when the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
And again there is no specific identification that "sons ("ben") of God" were angels (malak).before Jehovah, that Satan also came among them.
2:1 again it came to pass on the day when the sons of God came to present themselves
before Jehovah, that Satan came also among them to present himself before Jehovah.
38:7 when the morning stars sang together, And all the sons of God shouted for joy?
( “morning stars” can be shown as a metaphor for saints of God and children of Abraham.)
Now for New Testament "the sons of God" references:
Luke 20:34 Jesus said unto them, The sons of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
Luke 20:36 for neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels;
and ARE sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
reaffirmed by Paul to the churches:
Galatians 3:26 For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.
Ephesians 1:5 having fore-ordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ...
Ephesians 1:5 having fore-ordained us unto adoption as sons through Jesus Christ...
Beloved, now are
we the sons of God....
? What we see and do not see in the above scriptures: Are any angels, fallen or otherwise called “sons of God? -NO!
Are men, “they that are accounted worthy” called “sons of God” -YES!
Are Old Testament saints who were “they of faith”, and “sons of Abraham”,
also “sons of the resurrection” and “accounted worthy” ? -YES!
also “sons of the resurrection” and “accounted worthy” ? -YES!
Are the same “sons of God through faith in Christ Jesus”, “sons of God? -YES!
Did Abraham have faith and look for Jesus? -YES!
Jesus said “Abraham saw my day and rejoiced”. John 8:56
Now we have two witnesses in Jesus Christ and Witness Paul telling us who the “sons of God” really are.
If that were not enough, we see "angels" (aggelos) used 176 times in the New Testament and not one single time are they referred to as "sons" or "sons of God". "Aggelos", Gr, #32, "angel(s), messenger(s).
Angelic Sons of God Error Corrected, reason number 3:
In scripture, the Word instructs us that a teaching and truth are built “line upon line, line upon line”.
Scripture tells us that “in the mouth of two or three witnesses let every word be established”.
That is correct, there are no verses in either the Old or New Testaments pointing to women making babies with fallen angels.
The premise that fallen-angels-sons-of-God, were able to make babies with human women have the following number of verses to additionally witness that theory: -0-
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That is correct, there are no verses in either the Old or New Testaments pointing to women making babies with fallen angels.
Jesus did not mention this as an end time warning in Matthew 24 when he gave signs to watch out for, nor did Paul write of such nonsense when he wrote about the end times. And God repeats history.
The "signs" most warned? The "deceivers" "false teachers" "seducing spirits" and "demon doctrines".
The "signs" most warned? The "deceivers" "false teachers" "seducing spirits" and "demon doctrines".
There is a place where Jesus said the devil himself could father children.
He told the Jews and pharisees in John 8:44 Ye are of your father the devil,
and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning,
and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him.
Did the devil have sex with the mothers of the pharisees?
and the lusts of your father it is your will to do. He was a murderer from the beginning,
and standeth not in the truth, because there is no truth in him.
Did the devil have sex with the mothers of the pharisees?
Jesus clearly said they were of their father the devil.
HOW did the devil make baby pharisees? -and how could the devil father human children?
Do you think if the devil could have physical sex to impregnate women, make giants and “nephillum”, that he would have stayed pretty busy making as many as possible all through history?
HOW did the devil make baby pharisees? -and how could the devil father human children?
Do you think if the devil could have physical sex to impregnate women, make giants and “nephillum”, that he would have stayed pretty busy making as many as possible all through history?
Here is what Jesus said about "good seed" and "tares" who are of bad seed.
Matthew 13:38 and the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one How did tares become "SONS of the evil one"?
Are we are supposed to accept that a one-night-verse-stand back there in Genesis 6 by sexy fallen angels, that for some odd reason never again happened in scripture,
nor was spoken of as such, nor warned about, is somehow fit for Christian consumption?
-I don’t think so, unless you want to accept purgatory and prayers for the dead.
Friends, no scripture is of private interpretation.
It is error to isolate one passage and teach a doctrinal fable built around one verse, with no corroborating scripture testimony.
Sons Of God Error Corrected Reason 4:
An apple seed brings forth an apple tree. A cows “seed” brings forth calves.
Angels cannot reproduce with humans. Angels are called “ministering spirits”, and “a spirit has not flesh and bone”.
Seed reproduces kind, and the only seed a seducing spirit can sow is spiritual seed via words, i.e. “doctrines of demons”.
It was that very method the devil by which deceived Eve in the garden, a demon doctrine deceived her and it was spiritual words that she believed. A lie is a spiritual seed.
21 And God created the great sea-monsters, and every living creature that moves,
…. after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind:
24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind, cattle,
and creeping things, and beasts of the earth after their kind: and it was so.
…. after their kind, and every winged bird after its kind:
24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth living creatures after their kind, cattle,
and creeping things, and beasts of the earth after their kind: and it was so.
25 And God made the beasts of the earth after their kind, and the cattle after their kind,
and everything that creeps upon the ground after its kind: ...
and everything that creeps upon the ground after its kind: ...
There ZERO scriptures stating that angels (spirits) can reproduce flesh. That which is begotten of the flesh is flesh, that which is of the Spirit is spirit".
WARNINGS:
1Tim 1:3) As I exhorted thee to tarry at Ephesus, when I was going into Macedonia,
that thou mightest charge certain men not to teach a different doctrine,
4) neither to give heed to fables and endless genealogies,
which minister questionings
4) neither to give heed to fables and endless genealogies,
which minister questionings
"Fables" is “muthos”, which is a tale, that is, fiction, (myth).
There are a number of warnings people do not seem to care to observe:
1Timothy 4:7 But refuse profane and old wives' fables. And exercise thyself unto godliness.
Was it fables about “old wives” and fallen angel genealogies that were being referred to?
There is no evidence for “fallen angels” making babies by having sex with humans in scripture except by perverting a few words and passages, that are not even specific about angels having sex with humans.
But there are warnings about giving heed to “seducing spirits” and doctrines of demons.
There is no evidence for “fallen angels” making babies by having sex with humans in scripture except by perverting a few words and passages, that are not even specific about angels having sex with humans.
But there are warnings about giving heed to “seducing spirits” and doctrines of demons.
“Seducing spirits” do not have sex with human women,
It is their “doctrines” that spiritually impregnate the “sons of God”. |
That is why Jesus told them they were of their father the devil.
Today, myth and fable are mainstream, and sell well. Extra-Biblical books are referenced in scripture itself. But we are forbidden to establish doctrine apart from scripture, and without additional witness in scripture itself.
There is no scripture witness from scripture of demons making human babies :)
Let's chain ourselves to what is written, anytime we depart from that deception waits.
Sons Of God Error Corrected Reason 5:
Sons Of God Error Corrected Reason 5:
No scriptures in the New Testament, say anything remotely close to fallen angels making babies with humans” error.
Are fallen angels ever called “sons of God” in the New Testament? NO!
Does the New Testament even mention angels and sonship? YES!
- "For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son,
this day have I begotten thee? -Heb 1:5
Those holding the fallen angels are “sons of God” in Genesis 6 and Job, find themselves directly contradicting God saying to which of his angels at any time did He say “thou art My son”!
Angels are "spirits".
Heb. 1:13 But of which of the angels hath he said at any time, Sit thou on my right hand,
Till I make thine enemies the footstool of thy feet?
14) Are they not all ministering spirits.
Can a fallen angel produce human or angelic sperm in order to impregnate a human woman?
Not according to Jesus:
John 3:6 That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit.
"flesh": The flesh, denotes human nature and the physical substance of human kind.
"spirit": A spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter,
and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting.
A spirit can inhabit a body (satan entered into Judas), a spirit can appear as a man, but never is a spirit given capability to produce human seed.
The ONLY seed an evil fallen angel can sow is a lie.
Just because angels materialized into human form and ate food does not mean mean they had every human capability including reproduction. The scripture does not state the attribute that angels can make human “seed”, and cross breed, as seed begets "kind" after its’ own "kind".
Matthew 13:38 and the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom;
and the tares are the sons of the evil one
That's right, sons of the "evil one" are "tares" because they receive the "seed" of the devil, i.e. lies.
1 Samuel 2:12 Now
the sons of Eli were sons of Belial; they knew not the LORD.
1 Samuel 10:27 But
the children of Belial said, How shall this man save us?
1 Samuel 1:16 Count
not thine handmaid for a daughter of Belial
Deuteronomy 13:13 Certain
men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn
the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye
have not known;
Judges 19:22 Now
as they were making their hearts merry, behold, the men of the city, certain
sons of Belial, ..and spake to
the master of the house, the old man, saying, Bring forth the man that came
into thine house, that we may know him.
We ask, if sons of God are fallen angels, and both men and fallen angels are of their father the devil, what made both "kind" sons of the devil?
-was it physical procreation or was it spiritual by following a lie and rebellion?
-was it physical procreation or was it spiritual by following a lie and rebellion?
Sons Of God Error Corrected Reason 6:
Warning, fables-fables-fables
Warning, fables-fables-fables
Ye do err, not knowing the scriptures Jesus said in the passage regarding angels, men, sons of God. Some folks believe the Book of Enoch is scripture. However if the Book of Enoch is not scripture, it is not to be included as a witness to a doctrine and Jesus did not refer to it or quote from it. Paul did not quote from it, Jude says "Enoch prophesied...", but nothing more.
This is stark contrast to the hundreds of quotes from OT scriptures in the New Testament.
Jude quotes a prophesy from Enoch, just as other words are quoted from many other prophets. The "Book of Enoch" and the writings of Enoch are nowhere validated as scripture, by the scripture.
Others prophesied likewise:
" And there was also a man that prophesied in the name of Jehovah, Uriah " -Jer. 26:20
".. sons of Asaph, ... who prophesied after the order of the king." 1Chron 25:2
"Of the sons of Jeduthun: Gedaliah, and Zeri, and Jeshaiah, Hashabiah, and Mattithiah, six, under the hands of their father Jeduthun with the harp, who prophesied in giving thanks and praising Jehovah." 1Chron 25:3
So we see that even though others "prophesied" as Enoch did, the "Book of Enoch" is not given as scripture but a prophesy by Enoch is witnessed by scripture...
1. 1Timothy 1:4 neither to give heed to fables and endless genealogies, which minister questionings, rather than a dispensation of God which is in faith; so do I now.
2. 1Timothy 4:7 But refuse profane and old wives' fables. And exercise thyself unto godliness:
3. 2Timothy 4:4 and will turn away their ears from the truth, and turn aside unto fables.
4. Titus 1:14 not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men
3. 2Timothy 4:4 and will turn away their ears from the truth, and turn aside unto fables.
4. Titus 1:14 not giving heed to Jewish fables, and commandments of men
who turn away from the truth.
(bad fruit turns God's people away from scripture)
5. 2Peter 1:16 For we did not follow cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
5. 2Peter 1:16 For we did not follow cunningly devised fables, when we made known unto you the power and coming of our Lord Jesus Christ
Once the unvarnished truth is accepted, the doctrine of hormone-driven sexy angels marrying or sexually molesting women and making babies who become giants is absurd and ridiculous.
God repeats history. He declared it so in Ecc. 1:8-9. The things that have been are the things that shall be
Because doctrine is not to be established by one verse or context, true doctrine will be established by "line upon line...".
I submit to you, the reader, that no scripture states that angels are "sons of God", but scriptures do say that men are called "sons of God'.
I submit that in no other passage of scripture is there reference to, or a declaration of angelic spirits having sexual relations with human women and making babies.
I submit to you that God repeats history and we can demonstrate that in the scripture. But I cannot find any repetition of God repeating the alleged "sons of God-fallen angel" theory of them making babies with humans.
In closing, here are three scriptures that cannot lie, but men can be deceived into lying about them.
Read them with care and decide for yourself.
Read them with care and decide for yourself.
... the nephilim were in the earth in those days, and also after that,
when the sons of God came unto the daughters of men,
... neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection
... For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my son ?
... neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection
... For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my son ?
*** Further scripture notes on “Sons of God”:
If "sons" of God means or included "angels", then there is not a single evidence in these passages which mention "sons" of God:
Exodus 4:22 And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son
Deuteronomy 32:19 And
the Lord saw it, and abhorred them, Because of the provocation of his sons and
his daughters
John 1:12 But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of Godeven to them that believe on his name:
1Chron 17:13 I will be his father, and he shall be my son: and I will not take my mercy away from him
1 Chron 22:10 He shall build an house for my name; and he shall be my son, and I will be his father
Hosea 11:1 When Israel was a child, then I loved him, and called my son out of Egypt.
Rev 21:7 He that overcomes shall inherit all things; and I will be his God, and he shall be my son.
Did OT saints “overcome?
Did they believe God?
Did they “see from afar” the promises of God in Christ?
Isaiah 43:6 I will say to the north, Give up; and to the south, Keep not back: bring my sons from far,
and my daughters from the ends of the earth;
Isaiah 45:11 Thus saith the LORD, the Holy One of Israel, and his Maker,
Ask me of things to come concerning my sons,
and concerning the work of my hands command ye me.
2Corinthians 6:18 And will be a Father unto you, and ye shall be my sons and daughters, saith the Lord Almighty.
Hebrews 11 tells us who the “sons of God by FAITH in Christ Jesus” were:
4 By faith Abel 5 By faith Enoch 7 By faith Noah,8 By faith Abraham
13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them and greeted them from afar
24 By faith Moses... 26 accounting the reproach of Christ greater riches
13) These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them and greeted them from afar, and having confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth
27) By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
Galatians 3:26 For ye are all sons of God, through faith, in Christ Jesus.
Romans 8:14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, these are sons of God.
Luke 20:36 for neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are sons of God, being sons of the resurrection.
Did OT saints “overcome?
Did they believe God?
Did they “see from afar” the promises of God in Christ?
Not once are angels “sons” in any of those passages..
Genesis 3:15 and I will put enmity between thee and the woman, and between thy seed and her seed: he shall bruise thy head, and thou shalt bruise his heel.
Should we accept that both the woman and the serpent have "seed", and that the serpent was the devil,
both are prophesied to have "seed", in Hebrew meaning ones posterity.
Since both would have a "posterity", did the devil continue to have human children through sexual reproduction? -or would his children be those that received the same lie, and have the same nature as the serpent?? -just as the pharisees who were called children of the devil.
-The woman's "seed" is recognized as Jesus who would come to bruise the "head" of satan.
...............
Luke 6:35 But
love your enemies, and do them good, and lend, never despairing; and your
reward shall be great, and you shall be sons of the Most High
..............
..............
!!
Do you know that NONE of the angels
mentioned in scripture such as Michael and Gabriel, are ever specifically
called "sons of God", not in any passage anywhere in the
entire Bible!!
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Can you find non-human "sons of God here?
Deuteronomy 32:19 And Jehovah saw it, and abhorred them, Because of the provocation of his sons and his daughters.
Judges 5:5 And the children of Israel dwelt among
the Canaanites, the Hittites, and the Amorites, and the Perizzites, and the
Hivites, and the Jebusites: (unlike any angels, the children of Israel WERE
called “sons of God”)
6 and they took their daughters (of pagan
men)
to be their wives, (to the sons of God)
and gave their own daughters to their sons (of men) and served their gods.
and gave their own daughters to their sons (of men) and served their gods.
7 And the children of Israel did that which was evil
in the sight of Jehovah, and forgot Jehovah their God, and served the Baalim
and the Asheroth.
Do these include angels as sons of God?
Isaiah 43:6 I will say to the
north, Give up; and to the south, bring my sons from far, and my
daughters from the end of the earth
2 Corinthians 6:18 And
I will be to you a Father, And you shall be to me
sons and daughters, says the Lord Almighty.
THE MOORE THEOREM (light version) Because God repeats history (Ecclesiastes 1:7-8) God's first creation from Adam through the judgement at Noah's Flood, was in a world vastly different from ours. Earth was lush, teeming with life and plant forms, including trees that were incredibly tall and huge. See Devil's Tower, which is obviously a giant petrified tree stump. Of course giant dinosaurs are in great abundance as evidence and they needed giant foliage and abundant vegetation as nourishment. Humans were very tall also. The excavated graves of Noah and his wife that Ron Wyatt discovered in Turkey, were for bodies 12-14' tall. Archaeologist worldwide have found "megalithic" construction suitable for a race of humanity that was far larger than now, and the remains of giant skeletons likewise. Furthermore in my theory, mankind was highly technologically advanced in all areas of travel, electrical energy, travel, building construction, weapons of mass destruction, and medical-human research. There is evidence for all of these found in our world today. After Adam and Eve ate of the tree of Knowledge of good and evil, humanity put to use the knowledge gained. This very advanced civilization delved deeply into the satanic dark-wisdom crossing into spiritual perversions that produced the same perversions being promoted today as history repeats. In the area of human genetics and hybridization, DNA, genome, psychological, and blood manipulation were developed to alter mankind from God's creation and purpose into a satanic re-imaging of humanity to carry out the satanic agenda. Since spirit-beings do not have blood, they cannot pass along any non-human genetics. BUT THEY CAN and have worked through scientists then, as they do now, to alter and pervert the very God-created DNA and create a race of giants. My theorem postulates evil men altered the genetics to create depraved giants to become warriors who could dominate in warfare, and also be rulers, kings, queens, and an "elite" of their day. The Bible states they existed before and after the flood of Noah, so for this theory to be true, either some of Noah's family had the giant-DNA, or after the flood men once again duplicated the process to alter human genetics. |
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